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Thread: Glycerol / glycerine / byproduct pre wash

  1. #11
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    Re: Glycerol / glycerine / byproduct pre wash

    I always do a prewash, I also think that it removes any moisture in the oil.

  2. #12
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    Re: Glycerol / glycerine / byproduct pre wash

    Quote Originally Posted by smithw View Post
    I always do a prewash, I also think that it removes any moisture in the oil.
    From tests I have done over the years on my well settled oil the glycerol pre treatment reduces the water content from around 850ppm to 350ppm.

    3DB, I would initially try to reduce your methanol from 20% to 16%.

    I keep my oil in a 600 litre IBC. if I need to add more oil and have no fresh glycerol to mix it with I re-mix the contents of the tank with the fresh oil and glycerol that was already in there (usually 100 litres) If I have fresh glycerol or oil I then re-mix, having run some or all of the oid glycerol out first.

    As long as the contents are left a few days to settle, the oil is always 'ready to go' and not only shows alkaline properties (so it cannot be titrated) but also a considerable degree of conversion. At the moment I am fully converting a batch using around 11 to 12% methanol. So the savings can be considerable with a minimum cost of electricity if doing the mixing at ambient temps with a compressor.

  3. #13
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    828

    Re: Glycerol / glycerine / byproduct pre wash

    I always pre wash mine with the Glycerine - i add 40L from the previous batch to 200L of oil.

    I do the heat up phase from 5AM on our lowest tarriff for two hours so the oil gets to about 40C, add the glycerine and let is settle for 12 hours - drain it off that evening and then do the full processing the next day - it adds a day to the process and about 50cents to the cost of a 200L batch.

    I use KOH and estimate it saves me about 500g for a batch and using a two stage process i get away with about 15% methanol (first stage 10%) 2nd stage 5%

    Craig
    Holden Suburban K2500 1998 6.5L Turbo GM engine
    210,000KMs (90,000 on new crate motor)

    Currently 2 tanks in and working - 90 litre BIO tank and main tank of 160L WVO

    30 plate FPHE in Engine bay and Helton Dual coil in rear
    Walbro FRB-5 pusher pumps x 2

    50,000KM on Veg and 10,000Km on B100

  4. #14
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    Re: Glycerol / glycerine / byproduct pre wash

    To put this into a bit more perspective,
    The 2 stage procedure that Neutral developed uses 16.3% methanol- 163ml methanol per litre of oil reacted to pass Warnqvest.
    This is without a glycerine pre-wash as the first stage and assuming the titration is not terribly high.
    http://www.biofuelsforum.com/threads...hlight=neutral

  5. #15
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    Re: Glycerol / glycerine / byproduct pre wash

    Hi smithy,

    Quote Originally Posted by smithy View Post
    if I need to add more oil and have no fresh glycerol to mix it with
    I am not sure what you mean by "fresh glycerol" Where does the fresh glycerol come from.




    At the moment I am fully converting a batch using around 11 to 12% methanol.
    Do you mean that after doing the pre-wash and remove the glycerol used in the pre-wash you only need to add a further 11%- 12% methanol to the reaction to pass the 3-27 test.

    I see that craigcurtain does a total of three stages, the pre- wash and two further stages and uses a total of about 15% methanol additional to the methanol contined in the glycerol pre-wash
    I am curious about the procedure you use after draining the glycerol pre-wash that uses a total of 11%- 12% methanol additional to the methanol contained in the glycerine pre-wash




    So the savings can be considerable with a minimum cost of electricity if doing the mixing at ambient temps with a compressor.
    Compressors are not cheap to run- it is the compressor that makes refrigerators so expensive to operate.
    Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 24th May 2017 at 09:45 AM.

  6. #16
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    Re: Glycerol / glycerine / byproduct pre wash

    Quote Originally Posted by tillyfromparadise View Post
    Hi smithy,

    SNIP

    Originally Posted by smithy


    So the savings can be considerable with a minimum cost of electricity if doing the mixing at ambient temps with a compressor.
    Compressors are not cheap to run- it is the compressor that makes refrigerators so expensive to operate.
    I agree, it is much cheaper to run a small pump or stirrer than to run a compressor. Even if they are the same size motor, the losses in compressing air mean that the impact on circulation is far less than a stirrer or pump.
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles on oil based fuels:
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car) [sold]


    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google

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  7. #17
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    Re: Glycerol / glycerine / byproduct pre wash

    Just to share the procedure I used this past summer to make the biodiesel I will use this year.
    My diesel engine does not require high conversion biodiesel

    At about 5:30 am I turn the heater on to heat 130 litres of WVO to around 50C that is already in a reactor . This takes about 2 hours.
    Around 7:30 am I remove the heater from the reactor and add the methoxide made to the formula 14%-140ml methanol mixed with 10g KOH per litre of WVO being reacted.
    I then mix that for at least an hour using both a pump and drill for mixing.
    By 9:00am this batch is finished and ready for further processing

    Because I only have one heater, at 7:30, after removing the heater from the first 130 litre batch of WVO, I start heating another 130 litres of WVO to around 50C that is in another reactor. This takes about 2 hours.
    At 9:30 am I add the same formula methoxide to this batch and mix for another hour or so.
    By 11:00 am I have finished reacting two- 130 litre batches of biodiesel which is roughly 1/7 of the biodiesel I will likely use this year.

  8. #18
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    Feb 2006
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    Sydney, Dili
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    Re: Glycerol / glycerine / byproduct pre wash

    [QUOTE=tillyfromparadise;64970]
    At about 5:30 am I turn the heater on

    I like your methodology Tilly , but is the timing critical ? bugger starting work that early

  9. #19
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    Sep 2005
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    Re: Glycerol / glycerine / byproduct pre wash

    Easily done using a timer and mains contactor to suit the current rating of the element.
    Set the start time, set the stop time, turn on the power to the timer. Come back after the oil is heated up.
    Simple technology.
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles on oil based fuels:
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car) [sold]


    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google

    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  10. #20
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    Re: Glycerol / glycerine / byproduct pre wash

    Hi timorcoco

    Quote Originally Posted by timorcoco View Post
    I like your methodology Tilly , but is the timing critical ?
    No, the timing is not critical.
    I tend to get up with the sun.
    I live in Queensland where there is not Day Light Savings.
    At that time of the year, the sun is well and truly up by 5:30am.
    There is no sense in wasting sunlight

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