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Thread: Pre Heating WVO before injector pump

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    Perth
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    Re: Pre Heating WVO before injector pump

    Right, it's sorted - the problem was the Toyo filter. For some reason, it gums up as soon as the VO hits it, even after going through the Frantz. I know the oil isn't dirty because I've been running the same batch in both my Mazda and Merc for several months now with no problems. But as soon as it hit the Toyo filter it gummed up. That's why the power loss was so hard to trace, as it seemed so unlikely, given the fact that I knew the oil was OK. And then when I replaced the filter the new one gummed up almost immediately.

    Anyhow, I fixed the problem by replacing it with a Delphi CAV unit (5 um) and now it's running beautifully. The temps are 71 for the HE, 55 in the Frantz and about the same in the Delphi. But I'm considering fitting a 2nd HE after the CAV and before the IP. 55 is probably OK, but I wouldn't mind it being a little hotter. It wouldn't need anywhere near the capacity of the unit running off the coolant. Maybe a smaller electric unit- can anyone point me in the right direction?

  2. #42
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
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    282

    Re: Pre Heating WVO before injector pump

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Mark View Post
    The temps are 71 for the HE, 55 in the Frantz and about the same in the Delphi. But I'm considering fitting a 2nd HE after the CAV and before the IP. 55 is probably OK, but I wouldn't mind it being a little hotter. It wouldn't need anywhere near the capacity of the unit running off the coolant. Maybe a smaller electric unit- can anyone point me in the right direction?
    Yep, an earlier post in this very thread, from a long-time WVO / SVO user who knows his stuff:

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnojack View Post
    A hose in hose is really only a preheater, good for making thick oil flow from the tank. Get a proper 20 plate heat exchanger (HEX). 82deg, that is just the max coolant temperature, the temperature of the injector will be much higher. A HEX will get the oil close to 82 deg. You could get a 12v heater if you like but you will ultimately find it is a waste of money.
    1987 Mercedes W124 300D
    1997 Ssangyong Musso Wagon

  3. #43
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    Oct 2011
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    Perth
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    121

    Re: Pre Heating WVO before injector pump

    You're referring to the Helton Unit. I had a look at it - it's pretty impressive - nice and compact. The question is do I get the single coil or twin coil unit? I reckon the single coil will do if the fuel is coming in at 55. Does anyone know what size the fuel line barbs are on those units?
    Last edited by Dr Mark; 10th October 2017 at 10:14 PM.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
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    4,064

    Re: Pre Heating WVO before injector pump

    I am sure that 83Patrol was referring to a flat plate heat exchanger. They are designed with heat transfer efficiency in mind, unlike the "shower units" like the Helton and other similar units.
    My testing of Helton heat exchangers showed that they were particularly inefficient at heating veggie oil. Probably OK for shower water, as you do not want it over 50C.
    With veggie, you want it at coolant temperature of >80C

    The Heltons I tested had 1/4" copper pipe for the heated medium. I am sure that Helton will fit whatever sized pipe you need to suit your system (at a cost). IIRC, I tested the dual coil Helton with the coils in series.

    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    Toyota Camry Hybrid - (Wife's Car)

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]



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  5. #45
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    121

    Re: Pre Heating WVO before injector pump

    Helton have a HE made specifically for biofuel (as well as the ones for showers). Is that the one you rtested?

  6. #46
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    Sep 2005
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    WA
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    Re: Pre Heating WVO before injector pump

    Helton sent me a dual coil biofuel one for testing after I approached them offering to test one on my 300D with a 4 channel recording thermometer.
    I recorded coolant in / out and fuel in/out temperatures from a cold engine until the engine had achieved operating temperature. The fuel tank was full so there was little change in the 'fuel in' temp. The helton didn't get to 80C unless the engine was at operating temp and idling. As soon as I accelerated, the fuel out temp. dropped rapidly. I will see if I can find the results for 10 plate FPHE and Helton. It was a few computers ago though, so I am not optimistic.
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    Toyota Camry Hybrid - (Wife's Car)

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]



    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  7. #47
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Tasmania
    Posts
    492

    Re: Pre Heating WVO before injector pump

    The barbs in the modern vo helton HE are 10mm, I use the single helton, tried a dual pipe one and it now sits on a shelf because it wasn't as efficient as the single input, even when you looped it. To get the best out of helton HE's you need to insulate them I found.

    Have never tested the temp of the oil after the HE, but when you go to change an inline filter on the road and the oil almost burns your hand, that's hot enough for me. It can also depend on where you take the hot water from, I take it from as close to the engine outlet as possible and before the car heater so you get the most heat. Plus insulate the hoses from the he to the iP.

    Tried a flat plate that Tony sold me many moons ago, but it tended to block a bit and put that down to the very cold weather here, never had that problem with the Heltons. But have had a stock filter clog up badly and put that down to a bad filter as replacing it fixed the problem.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    121

    Re: Pre Heating WVO before injector pump

    Thanks for the info. I belong to the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" school of thought, and I've decided that since it's running fine as it is I'm going to leave it. I may revisit the idea next winter, but for now I'll leave it.
    BTW I did some research into viscosities. For one vege oil the V at 20 deg was 75 centistokes, at 55 it had dropped to 35 and at 80 it was 26. So if my oil is at 55 it's right down on flat part of the viscosity curve

  9. #49
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    Sep 2005
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    WA
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    Re: Pre Heating WVO before injector pump

    Mark, Different oils have different viscosity curves and melting points, so check for your specific oil, not just "one vege oil"
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    Toyota Camry Hybrid - (Wife's Car)

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]



    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  10. #50
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    121

    Re: Pre Heating WVO before injector pump

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony From West Oz View Post
    Mark, Different oils have different viscosity curves and melting points, so check for your specific oil, not just "one vege oil"
    Yes I'm well aware of that (believe it or not) - the point I was making is that at 55 deg is down on the flat part of the curve, and is much less viscous than RT oil. The oil in mine ATM is cottonseed, which is more viscous than the WVO from my other source, which is soybean oil

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