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Thread: Generator Exhaust Through a Steel Wall

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    Lismore NSW
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    312

    Generator Exhaust Through a Steel Wall

    Hi gents,

    As moving to our new property is getting closer, I have put all my off grid power stuff in a shipping container, the back of it has a more or less sound proof compartment to house our back up diesel generator. As one would think, diesel fumes, even BIO fumes should get out of this box somehow. Has anyone experience with running a exhaust through a solid steel wall? I am a bit concerned about the vibrations of the pipe. So I don't want to bolt it to the container directly. I was thinking about cutting a hole slightly bigger than the pipe and just seal that off with exhaust tape to prevent insects and the like from coming in.
    Thanks for your ideas!
    Jens
    1990 Toyota Hilux LN106 with ATG 2 tank system (sold after running 150.000 ks on mainly WVO)
    1993 Toyota 75 Series with 1 HZ engine both 75l factory tanks and a custom 170l under tray tank.
    200.000km 80% on bio 10% on WVO 10% on dino,

    "him who never made a mistake, made no discovery either"


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Brisbane (North Side)
    Posts
    681

    Re: Generator Exhaust Through a Steel Wall

    Hey Jens,

    Lag the pipe with insulation and wrap with a solid layer of foil. Then slip a 'deck-tight' over it and fix to the shipping container with screws. vibrations be gone. bugs be gone. rain be gone.
    Regards,

    Cade.

    2002 100 series Landcruiser
    240,000 Km and counting on B100, 330,000km total on car.
    Naturally aspirated, Walbro Pusher pump just upstream of tank switch valves, Cav filter with reversed fuel flow direction.
    At 160,000 km Rebuilt pump, Reconditioned head and manifolds, glow plugs. Injectors all good after 160,000 km on B100.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,063

    Re: Generator Exhaust Through a Steel Wall

    Quote Originally Posted by Bueff View Post
    Hi gents,

    As moving to our new property is getting closer, I have put all my off grid power stuff in a shipping container, the back of it has a more or less sound proof compartment to house our back up diesel generator. As one would think, diesel fumes, even BIO fumes should get out of this box somehow. Has anyone experience with running a exhaust through a solid steel wall? I am a bit concerned about the vibrations of the pipe. So I don't want to bolt it to the container directly. I was thinking about cutting a hole slightly bigger than the pipe and just seal that off with exhaust tape to prevent insects and the like from coming in.
    Thanks for your ideas!
    Jens
    I think that it would also be a good idea to also have a fan and vent to remove the engine heat from the container and provide fresh air for the engine to use. If using a water cooled generator, it may be worthwhile installing the engine with the radiator sealed against a hole in a wall and change the fan to a blower fan, so the radiator heat goes out of the container.
    If the air going into the engine is hot, you get much less air into the combustion chambers because the air is less dense than cold air. This means that you will have significantly less power and greater fuel consumption.
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    Toyota Camry Hybrid - (Wife's Car)

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]



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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Lismore NSW
    Posts
    312

    Re: Generator Exhaust Through a Steel Wall

    Thank you Cade and Tony,

    Yes there will be a fan that drags air trough the compartment to keep it cool, I did manage to stop by at a friend who is an mechanic last night, he suggested to weld the pipe through the wall and then use those flexible, woven connectors to stop the vibration, He also suggested the exhaust wrap to keep the heat down in the container as well as muffling more sound. I'd rather go through a wall than the roof, just to make sure it wont leak over time, I just don't trust silicone long therm:-)

    this is the unit,

    https://www.ablesales.com.au/generat...generator.html
    1990 Toyota Hilux LN106 with ATG 2 tank system (sold after running 150.000 ks on mainly WVO)
    1993 Toyota 75 Series with 1 HZ engine both 75l factory tanks and a custom 170l under tray tank.
    200.000km 80% on bio 10% on WVO 10% on dino,

    "him who never made a mistake, made no discovery either"


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,063

    Re: Generator Exhaust Through a Steel Wall

    OK, that unit does not lend itself to remote mounting of the radiator, so you will need additional ventilation. I believe that you will need a large fan to draw air into the container engine room and vents to allow it to blow out the heated air. I am thinking of something in the order of 2KW, possibly thermostatically activated, to minimise power draw.
    The dividing wall between your charger, battery & inverter area and the engine room should be well insulated too.

    I support your thoughts of taking the exhaust thru the wall, but disagree about welding it to the steel walls as I believe that exhaust heat will transfer to the steel walls and heat the container significantly.
    A pipe welded thru the wall, big enough to take a well insulated exhaust pipe, would work just a well though. External supports for the exhaust and a flexible coupling to the generator exhaust, may be needed to prevent metal fatigue in the exhaust system.

    Are you planning on a shade structure over the container, to reduce heat build up during the day?
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    Toyota Camry Hybrid - (Wife's Car)

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]



    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Brisbane (North Side)
    Posts
    681

    Re: Generator Exhaust Through a Steel Wall

    Put your radiator outside with an electric fan outside, otherwise you will have no chance of keeping the noise down. any hole big enough allow cooling air in / out will certainly cart the noise with it.

    Tony a shade structure is a great idea, My Dad simply fixed some joists down to the top of his container and screwed some second hand roofing iron on. dropped the temp big time.

    flexible couplings at the wall penetrations with a deck-tight to seal them will be a good solution.
    Regards,

    Cade.

    2002 100 series Landcruiser
    240,000 Km and counting on B100, 330,000km total on car.
    Naturally aspirated, Walbro Pusher pump just upstream of tank switch valves, Cav filter with reversed fuel flow direction.
    At 160,000 km Rebuilt pump, Reconditioned head and manifolds, glow plugs. Injectors all good after 160,000 km on B100.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Lismore NSW
    Posts
    312

    Re: Generator Exhaust Through a Steel Wall

    Thanks guys,

    yes there will be a corrugated roof over both, the bio and the power container,
    The compartment is made from 70 x 35 pine frames with sound barrier insulation between studs and ceiling joists. and 2 layers of sound stop plasterboard on walls and ceiling. There will be a door with vents in it inside the container, but the actual vents for fresh air will be in the doors of the container.
    They are custom made aluminium louvers with automotive sound shield stuck to them. The only large penetration through the wall is the 350 x 350 mm fan which has a baffled shaft also lines with sound shield.
    There is no connection to the walls and ceiling of the container, so there should be only minimal sound transfer through the floor. The generator is sitting on rubber mounts to minimize vibrations and I am hoping that the sweet smell of bio will be the only way for the neighbor to tell that the generator is running :-).
    They are about 70 m away up hill, maybe a bit of landscaping will come into play as well.
    Currently the generator is about 70db at 10m, if I can bring that down to 25db I am happy.
    1990 Toyota Hilux LN106 with ATG 2 tank system (sold after running 150.000 ks on mainly WVO)
    1993 Toyota 75 Series with 1 HZ engine both 75l factory tanks and a custom 170l under tray tank.
    200.000km 80% on bio 10% on WVO 10% on dino,

    "him who never made a mistake, made no discovery either"


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    1,127

    Re: Generator Exhaust Through a Steel Wall

    Sound proofing a generator is a complicated task. I have had quite a bit of experience in this field both as a noise compliance officer with the Government and later working with an off grid solar installer. Working through all the issues here would take me ages. Will try and keep it brief. To stop noise you need 2 elements, a barrier (steel container walls, gyprock or similar solid materials) and absorbent (sound shield, heavy insulation). In addition all holes must be sealed up. This obviously can't work with a generator and is the hardest part to deal with. As the generator has the radiator at one end this could be made to match an opening in the container, ideal if the genny has a blower fan. Air can come in elsewhere, through double louvers with sound shield on them. The generator room should have absorbent on the walls to prevent reverberation in the room which amplifies the noise emitted. This will work far better than just having insulation within the wall. All getting very expensive I know. I have seen lots of money spent to little effect because holes/vents in the structure negated insulation efforts and too light a material was used as a barrier which then vibrated, adding to the noise. I could go on but, yawn.
    I would face the radiator vent away from your house and definitely put the exhaust through the roof not the wall, use a double pipe through a large dektite.
    Last edited by Johnnojack; 25th July 2017 at 12:23 AM.
    Johnnojack
    4WD Isuzu Jackaroo 3.1 170,000km on WVO,(2017) 2 tank home built system 6 solenoids. Mk. 9 version. Improvements under investigation

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    1,127

    Re: Generator Exhaust Through a Steel Wall

    The exhaust through the wall emits a lot of noise, the wall then acts as an amplifier like the back of a guitar. Put exhaust on the roof and most of this noise is gone
    Johnnojack
    4WD Isuzu Jackaroo 3.1 170,000km on WVO,(2017) 2 tank home built system 6 solenoids. Mk. 9 version. Improvements under investigation

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Lismore NSW
    Posts
    312

    Re: Generator Exhaust Through a Steel Wall

    Thanks Johnno,

    The generator has its own fan wich pulls air though the sides of the housing over the engine and out the end, where I have placed the fan in the wall to try to pull the warmer air out of the compartment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnojack View Post
    The generator room should have absorbent on the walls to prevent reverberation in the room which amplifies the noise emitted. This will work far better than just having insulation within the wall. .
    I was thinking along these lines, I have a mate with a carpet business and was wondering if I was to "hang" carpet of the walls to try to stop the vibrations before they get to bounce off the wall, that's much cheaper than the egg shell foam stuff.

    The exhaust through the wall emits a lot of noise, the wall then acts as an amplifier like the back of a guitar. Put exhaust on the roof and most of this noise is gone

    interesting point, excuse my smart ass question, why would the roof not act like a amplifier too?

    would that be because of the directional noise then?

    Would it make it worse with having a corrugated roof over the container?

    Loving your work guys !!!

    Thanks
    1990 Toyota Hilux LN106 with ATG 2 tank system (sold after running 150.000 ks on mainly WVO)
    1993 Toyota 75 Series with 1 HZ engine both 75l factory tanks and a custom 170l under tray tank.
    200.000km 80% on bio 10% on WVO 10% on dino,

    "him who never made a mistake, made no discovery either"


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