Page 9 of 12 FirstFirst ... 56789101112 LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 120

Thread: The Imsides method

  1. #81
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    ลึก ประเทศอินเด&
    Posts
    1,919

    Re: The Imsides method

    Hi smithy,

    Quote Originally Posted by smithy View Post
    BTW well done with the tests.
    Thank you.



    ...in conjunction with glycerol pre treated oil which shows no titration
    Just so people understand what you mean by "glycerol pre treated oil".

    Smithy performs a first stage reaction which he seem to not want people to know is a first stage reaction so he calls it a

    glycerol pre treatment instead of the first stage reaction which is what it really is
    This first stage reaction is performed by adding byproduct containing an unmentioned amount of methanol/ KOH to the WVO and mixing.
    This first stage reaction neutralizes all the FFA's as well as performing some of the transesterfication of the WVO.
    As an added bonus. some of the biodiesel bound up in the byproduct that is added to perform this first stage reaction is released into this partially reacted first stage oil.
    Then the first stage has separation of byproduct which settles to the bottom and is removed.

    Then a second stage reaction is performed which he calls the first stage.
    All very confusing

    I await some meaningful comparison testing that demonstrated what difference, if any, this procedure actually has over the standard procedure.
    Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 8th November 2017 at 08:53 AM.

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    York UK
    Posts
    68

    Re: The Imsides method

    All the World is a stage, Tilly-----I'll leave the comparative testing to your goodself!

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    ลึก ประเทศอินเด&
    Posts
    1,919

    Re: The Imsides method

    TITRATION 8 KOH WVO- WE HAVE SEPARATION!

    Finally, this "foolproof" method has produced biodiesel. It took a while


    CONCLUSSION


    My testing here was to detect the high grade "golly Gosh" magic that had to be present to make this procedure "foolproof".
    The kind of magic where metoxide containing 15g KOH will not only neutralize all the FFA's in a litre of WVO titrating 18KOH, but also produce biodiesel.
    Not surprisingly, this type of magic was not detected. In fact I can not detect anything different from the normal single stage procedure.

    Very low grade magic might be able to be detected with further careful experimentation but for the time being I will leave that experimentation in the hands of other folks who seem very keen on having people believe this procedure is a major step forward in biodiesel home production.

    For now, I do not see the added time and expense required to perform this procedure value for money
    Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 8th November 2017 at 01:43 PM.

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Brisbane (North Side)
    Posts
    687

    Re: The Imsides method

    Cmon Tilly, donít be so cynical. This is a MAJOR step forward.

    This is means I can change my base rate from 8grams per litre to 7 grams per litre. Thatís around a 12% saving in potassium costs.....

    thanks for the hard work, I canít wait to reap the benefits!
    Regards,

    Cade.

    2002 100 series Landcruiser
    240,000 Km and counting on B100, 330,000km total on car.
    Naturally aspirated, Walbro Pusher pump just upstream of tank switch valves, Cav filter with reversed fuel flow direction.
    At 160,000 km Rebuilt pump, Reconditioned head and manifolds, glow plugs. Injectors all good after 160,000 km on B100.

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas, USA
    Posts
    270

    Re: The Imsides method

    This method seems to me to have a low temperature advantage. I recognize it probably increases methoxide concentration, but with a disadvantage of calcium soaps (probably) being formed that would not have been. I got a lot of glycerine fallout at about 25 degrees centigrade over a short time. I do not know how to effectively remove calcium soaps. I left the drying agent calcium oxide in my no ffa vegetable oil during transesterification with methoxide/methanol solution at room temperature. Tilly has found a problem with not titrating the vegetable oil.

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas, USA
    Posts
    270

    Re: The Imsides method

    The organic chemistry class I was in made a methoxide/alcohol type solution in 1985 or so. It involved putting dry/anhydrous alcohol into a flask then adding sodium metal. The metal floated in the alcohol bubbling (like boiling around it) until it had all reacted and dissolved. That made methoxide solution or a similar chemical without water in it. Buying anhydrous methoxide alcohol solution may be expensive. I don't know where to buy it here. Calcium oxide plus potassium hydroxide plus anhydrous methanol might be a less expensive alternative to buying methoxide solution. There were some people on biodiesel UK who could get methoxide solution for their transesterification reaction. Maybe letting the calcium oxide fines settle would produce an equivalently dry/anhydrous methoxide solution for less expensive use in making biodiesel.

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    ลึก ประเทศอินเด&
    Posts
    1,919

    Re: The Imsides method

    Hi Wesley,

    Quote Originally Posted by WesleyB View Post
    This method seems to me to have a low temperature advantage.
    This procedure does not seem to have a low temperature advantage

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,075

    Re: The Imsides method

    Can anyone please list the advantage (s) and disadvantage(s) of this method?
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    Toyota Camry Hybrid - (Wife's Car)

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]



    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  9. #89
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas, USA
    Posts
    270

    Re: The Imsides method

    Calcium oxide adsorbs , reacts with water, removing water from solution to a great extent in alcohol. Making methoxide solution from potassium or sodium hydroxide produces water and methoxide in alcohol solution. There's a chemical principle process called equilibrium, where raw materials react to produce products. In the case of making methoxide solution from potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide and methanol, methoxide and water are products of the reaction. Water decomposes methoxide. At a maximum concentration of methoxide and percentage of water present the reverse reaction (decomposition of methoxide by water) equals the forwards reaction (to the right side of the equation) of potassium or sodium hydroxide making methoxide. So by removing water , the reverse reation of decomposing methoxide is diminished, which increases the concentration of methoxide some. That's important in speeding up the transesterification (biodiesel making) reaction. In theory the reaction should be faster. That would be an advantage.

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    ลึก ประเทศอินเด&
    Posts
    1,919

    Re: The Imsides method

    Hi Tony,

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony From West Oz View Post
    Can anyone please list the advantage (s) and disadvantage(s) of this method?
    It is unlikely that anyone, including the Author of this procedure, has performed any MEANINGFUL COMPARISON TESTING to see what difference, if any, there is between this procedure and the standard single stage base procedure.

    My testing was just to show that the procedure was not foolproof.
    The claim that the procedure is foolproof has been shown to not be true and the claim that it can be performed at room temperature is meaningless because, as I have also demonstrated, the standard single stage procedure will also make biodiesel at a reduced temperature as long as everything remains liquid.

    University testing I have read shows that using NaOH gives a better yield than using KOH. I am sure this is because of the water bound in the KOH most people use.
    Real life experience on the several forums I am a member of has never shown a noticeable difference in yield when using KOH instead of NaOH so I suspect the difference is small.

    The Advantage that this procedure might have, but no-one has shown to be the case, is that if this procedure really removes the water from the methoxide then it will not only remove the water made producing methoxide but also remove the water that was bound with KOH. This should result in a better yield- as long as the WVO being reacted is low titration.

    At this point, someone needs to do some ACTUAL COMPARISON TESTING to show whether there is an advantage, and not just sitting back in a chair making wild guesses about what might be happening.

    As the Chemist Neutral used to say,
    "While it is good to know what should happen, it is even better to do some experiments and see what really happens"
    Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 11th November 2017 at 12:11 PM.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •