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Thread: The Imsides method

  1. #41
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    Re: The Imsides method

    Hi Wesley,
    Quote Originally Posted by WesleyB View Post
    I initially intended to determine if a reduced temperature for the transesterification reaction was practical.
    Describe what you mean by practical.
    People have been doing the reaction at room temperature for years. Room temperature reaction is only something new to you and imsides. Everyone who has any real knowledge about producing biodiesel knows the reaction will go at room temperature.
    That is a given




    I've read that calcium soaps are a problem with this Imisides Method,
    I have read a lot of nonsense posted about this procedure. As far as I can tell people are just making it up as they go along without performing any meaningful testing to support their amazing claims.




    so I removed the free fatty acids and most of the water to minimize the formation of soaps via neutralization and saponification reaction.
    What did that entail- this is the first you have mentioned "removed the free fatty acids and most of the water"




    it's a little cloudy from calcium oxide powder and calcium (di) hydroxide suspended in the bio.
    Explain how you determined the cloudiness was "calcium oxide powder and calcium (di) hydroxide suspended in the bio?"
    As far as I can tell you are just guessing again
    Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 20th September 2017 at 11:02 PM.

  2. #42
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    Re: The Imsides method

    Magnesol advertises purifying vegetable oil in restaurant settings, extending its' usable good quality life. It absorbs polar moilecules which free fatty acids are. I boiled off water from the new corn oil, I saw bubbles forming. There is a principle in chemistry (except radioactive chemistry) that no new elements are formed, there is a continuity of material. New molecules might be formed but the material you started with are the amount of elements you ended with in an experiment. You consider what was present then I see cloudyness in the biodiesel. What could it be? There's a limited number of possibilities. It's not radium, francium uranium etc since they weren't present initially. It might be calcium oxide and calcium (di) hydroxide as one was present and one is an expected product present in the biodiesel. If that's a guess?

  3. #43
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    Re: The Imsides method

    Hi Wesley,
    Quote Originally Posted by WesleyB View Post
    I boiled off water from the new corn oil, I saw bubbles forming.
    Really?
    I do not recall ever seeing water boil out of new veg oil




    You consider what was present then I see cloudyness in the biodiesel. What could it be? There's a limited number of possibilities. It's not radium, francium uranium etc since they weren't present initially. It might be calcium oxide and calcium (di) hydroxide as one was present and one is an expected product present in the biodiesel. If that's a guess?
    I see cloudiness every time I make biodiesel.
    It is not radium, francium uranium etc since they weren't present initially.
    I guarantee you it is also not calcium oxide and calcium (di) hydroxide.
    You are just making guesses as to what it might be and presenting them as fact.

    That 2g of calcium oxide you initially added to the reaction sure seems to have gone a long way
    Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 21st September 2017 at 05:35 AM.

  4. #44
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    Re: The Imsides method

    I used a magnetic stirring hot plate with magnetic stir bar in a 2000 milliliter beaker using moderately fast stirring at atmospheric pressure . I heated the new Wesson corn oil up to 105 degrees centigrade. What would you assume bubbles forming and floating to the top were? Maybe water? That's a (educated) guess. You just assume new Wesson (name brand) corn oil is completely dry (anhydrous). It's not. I think you are guessing that I'm guessing, I'm not. Kind of hard to explain that one. In producing synthetic fuel energy input is an important question. How much energy does it require to make a manageable liquid fuel to run an engine? For example I made about 100 grams of biodiesel from acorns, but I spent $20 twenty dollars American in acetone to extract the vegetable oil from the ground acorns. A fast transesterification reaction at room temperature is potentially profitable industrially. This reaction at room temperature and it's fast is significant (probably). Tilly do you actually make biodiesel or are you an arm chair intellectual observer?

  5. #45
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    Re: The Imsides method

    Hi Wesley,

    Quote Originally Posted by WesleyB View Post
    What would you assume bubbles forming and floating to the top were? Maybe water?
    It may be water. I have never seen new veg oil bubble when heated.




    You just assume new Wesson (name brand) corn oil is completely dry (anhydrous). It's not.
    I do not recall ever saying that I thought Wesson brand corn oil is completely dry (anhydrous)




    I think you are guessing that I'm guessing, I'm not. Kind of hard to explain that one.
    Without any proof you posted that your biodiesel was: "a little cloudy from calcium oxide powder and calcium (di) hydroxide suspended in the bio"
    Without any proof you posted: "At 4:39 PM did a 10/90 test, I got 0.6 milliliters of fallout most of which appears to be a white solid. At 4:58 PM did the 10/90 test again, there was 1 ml of solid white fallout (calcium oxide solid)"
    Without any proof you posted: "Within 30 minutes all the corn oil seems to be reacted at room temperature."
    Posting something as being a fact without having proof is guessing.



    Tilly do you actually make biodiesel or are you an arm chair intellectual observer?
    Unlike you, I actually make and use biodiesel for my everyday driving. Over the years I have made squillions of litres of biodiesel.
    In fact I will be starting this years production in a couple of weeks while my wife is visiting the USA

    Of course it goes without saying that I am also an intellectual observer
    Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 21st September 2017 at 10:35 AM.

  6. #46
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    Re: Reduced oil temperature in reactor ?

    Moving the Imisidies procedure discussion over here where it belongs

    Hi Wesley,

    Quote Originally Posted by WesleyB View Post
    You are right Smithy. What Dr. Mark's process is is adding an excess of inorganic base, Calcium oxide, magnesium oxide and other bases. The catalyst KOH in normal amounts might act to cause the dried vegetable oil to become biodiesel. But neutralising the free fatty acids is done by mostly other bases present which may be calcium (di) hydroxide and magnesium (di) hydroxide.
    Let me see if I understand what you are saying.
    According to you, the FFA's are neutralized by whatever was in the cement and the 15g of KOH that is added for every litre of WVO has very little to do with neutralizing the FFA's but is just there as a catalyst.

    Do you really believe this???
    Have you done any research or experimentation that supports this idea or are you just guessing?
    Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 28th October 2017 at 10:53 PM.

  7. #47
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    Re: The Imsides method

    Acid plus base yields salt and water. I do not know the relative reaction rates between calcium hydroxide , magnesium hydroxide and the catalyst caustic (potassium or sodium hydroxide). Dr. mark said swamp it with base from cement. I'm wondering how the aparatus works in processing with cement present. Even if the cement is only used to prepare the methoxide solution, there is often water present in the oil. That's a problem. I'm not guessing. The quantity of cement and its composition were not specified also.

  8. #48
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    Re: The Imsides method

    Hi wesley.

    Quote Originally Posted by WesleyB View Post
    Dr. mark said swamp it with base from cement. .
    Rubbish!
    Mark has made no such claim. Mark said: "If you knew any chemistry at all, you'd understand that the whole point of my method is that the vast excess of base swamps any residual FFA acidity."
    Mark is talking about the huge amount of KOH he uses- 15g KOH per litre of WVO.
    The only claim Mark has ever made for the cement is that it removes water. That is it!!! Mark has never claimed that the cement has any part in the neutrlization of the FFA's.
    There is nothing magical about the cement or in fact this whole procedure.

    Please stop making silly guesses about what might be going on and then presenting them as fact because you have made a few test litres of biodiesel.

    Let us please stick to the real world

  9. #49
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    Re: The Imsides method

    Cement was presented as a source of calcium oxide to dry methoxide solution. I worked once in a cement factory stacking 80 pound bags of cement as they came down a conveyor belt. Ground or powdered rock of some type was passed through a natural gas fire in a turning tube about 3 feet diameter. So calcium oxide is part of the product. So water plus calcium oxide yields calcium di hydroxide , an inorganic base that can react with free fatty acids to produce calcium soap. Magnesium may also be present with a valence of 2. So magnesium oxide (a base) reacts with water probably to form magnesium di hydroxide an other base to react at some rate with free fatty acids. Acid plus base yields salt plus water. The salt is soap (calcium di octadecanoic acid ester and magnesium di octadecanoate both are soaps). I'm not guessing what I don't know mainly is how quickly the soaps form.
    Last edited by WesleyB; 29th October 2017 at 02:35 PM. Reason: correction of a number

  10. #50
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    Re: The Imsides method

    Hi Wesley,

    Quote Originally Posted by WesleyB View Post
    Cement was presented as a source of calcium oxide to dry methoxide solution.
    And that is all the cement was presented as doing, drying the methoide solution. That is it. The cement dries the methoxide! Finished!



    So calcium oxide is part of the product. So water plus calcium oxide yields calcium di hydroxide , an inorganic base that can react with free fatty acids to produce calcium soap. Magnesium may also be present with a valence of 2. So magnesium oxide (a base) reacts with water probably to form magnesium di hydroxide an other base to react at some rate with free fatty acids. Acid plus base yields salt plus water. The salt is soap (calcium di octadecanoic acid ester and magnesium di octadecanoate both are soaps). I'm not guessing what I don't know mainly is how quickly the soaps form.
    And in this part you are just making wild guesses as to what MIGHT be happening in the reaction. You have no idea what is happening.
    How much of these inorganic bases are present in the drying phase of the methoxide?
    How much water is there in the methoxide?
    How did these inorgnic bases get from the methoxide drying phase to reaction?

    You are just making wild guesses. Your claim that "...neutralising the free fatty acids is done by mostly other bases present which may be calcium (di) hydroxide and magnesium (di) hydroxide." is absoute nonsense.
    I do not understand why you sometimes say such silly things.

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