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Thread: My Ambient/ Room temperature Biodiesel Production

  1. #21
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    Re: My Ambient/ Room temperature Biodiesel Production

    Better to try oil that titrates at 7(KOH) if you are adding 15gmsKOH/litre, then you may get somewhere!

  2. #22
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    Re: My Ambient/ Room temperature Biodiesel Production

    Hi smithy,

    Quote Originally Posted by smithy View Post
    Better to try oil that titrates at 7(KOH) if you are adding 15gmsKOH/litre, then you may get somewhere!
    We want to know if the procedure is really "foolproof and does not require titration".

    As the formula uses about 15g KOH per litre of WVO, The quickest way to test whether there really is some magic in the bag of cement you ad to the methoxide and the procedure really is "foolproof and does not require titration" is to test it using WVO that has a titration equal to or higher than 15g KOH.

    My bet is that this procedure will not work on WVO titrating 15KOH or above

  3. #23
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    Re: My Ambient/ Room temperature Biodiesel Production

    I also bet that you are correct Tilly. Even with anhydrous methoxide there is no way the reaction will get anywhere near completion with that recipe.

  4. #24
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    Re: My Ambient/ Room temperature Biodiesel Production

    Quote Originally Posted by tillyfromparadise View Post
    Hi smithy,

    We want to know if the procedure is really "foolproof and does not require titration".

    As the formula uses about 15g KOH per litre of WVO, The quickest way to test whether there really is some magic in the bag of cement you ad to the methoxide and the procedure really is "foolproof and does not require titration" is to test it using WVO that has a titration equal to or higher than 15g KOH.

    My bet is that this procedure will not work on WVO titrating 15KOH or above
    How much do you want to bet?

    If you knew any chemistry at all, you'd understand that the whole point of my method is that the vast excess of base swamps any residual FFA acidity. As you have no formal training in chemistry, I probably should not be surprised that you don't understand this. But if you want to take the bet bring along your "WVO titrating 15KOH or above" oil and I'll demonstrate it for you.

    BTW, when are you going to remove the heating bit from the Dr Pepper method, as apparently it is unnecessary?

  5. #25
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    Re: My Ambient/ Room temperature Biodiesel Production

    Dr. Mark; Swamp with inorganic base? All right. What about magnesium and calcium oxide that becomes dihydroxides (bases) that form ring around the bathtub type soaps? I see the ffa's could be neutralized by these . By ring around the bath tub type soaps I mean calcium di octadecanoate or magnesium di octadecanoate types soaps. I have read these are difficult to remove from crude biodiesel.
    Last edited by WesleyB; 28th October 2017 at 12:09 PM. Reason: explained something

  6. #26
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    Re: My Ambient/ Room temperature Biodiesel Production

    Hi Mark, i have (partly) used your method in that i have used CaO to dry the methoxide, then used a 2 stage method at ambient temperature. It does work. However, surely there has to be a relationship between the catalyst amount and the amount of ffa's in the oil.

    In the example that Tilly uses the oil would titrate at 15 (KOH) and from your instructions the amount of KOH added within the dried methoxide would be 15gms/litre of oil. The neutralisation of the FFA's would liberate 15x320ppm of water (I think) = 4800ppm water (0.48%)
    plus there would be dissolved water in the oil. This amount of water would lead to some saponification which in turn would use up more catalyst etc etc. I just can't see how 15gms KOH/litre would be able to convert any oil titrating at 15 KOH to biodiesel.

  7. #27
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    Re: My Ambient/ Room temperature Biodiesel Production

    You are right Smithy. What Dr. Mark's process is is adding an excess of inorganic base, Calcium oxide, magnesium oxide and other bases. The catalyst KOH in normal amounts might act to cause the dried vegetable oil to become biodiesel. But neutralising the free fatty acids is done by mostly other bases present which may be calcium (di) hydroxide and magnesium (di) hydroxide. This produces a solubility problem. The unwanted soap probably dissolves in the biodiesel very well. Getting the calcium soap and magnesium soap out is a problem. I used new corn oil in my experiments in this low temperature process, that has 0.6 titration number. A titration number of 15 would produce a lot of difficult soap problem. Oh yes the magnesium oxide and calcium oxide become magnesium (di) hydroxide and calcium (di) hydroxide when reacted with water. These are at least some of the inorganic bases that exist in this room temperature method using cement.

  8. #28
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    Re: My Ambient/ Room temperature Biodiesel Production

    Quote Originally Posted by WesleyB View Post
    Dr. Mark; Swamp with inorganic base? All right. What about magnesium and calcium oxide that becomes dihydroxides (bases) that form ring around the bathtub type soaps? I see the ffa's could be neutralized by these . By ring around the bath tub type soaps I mean calcium di octadecanoate or magnesium di octadecanoate types soaps. I have read these are difficult to remove from crude biodiesel.
    Any calcium or magnesium salts of the fatty acids would be, as you have correctly noted, insoluble, and so they'd mostly drop out with the glycerol phase (they do have residual solubility in the organic phase). But you'd find that the concentrations would be negligible for two reasons. Firstly, the whole point of using an excess of the drying agent is to ensure that the equilibrium lies very far to the left, so mimimal amounts of Ca(OH)2 would form in the MeOH solution. But secondly, and more importantly, the vastly more caustic nature of the monovalent potassium ion over both the calcium and magnesium ions would ensure a vast abundance of the former, and negligible concentration of the divalent salts. And as we all know, potassium salts of fatty acids are liquid (that's what hand soaps are made out of). I don't have partition coefficients handy, but this would mostly partition into the glycerol phase.
    Last edited by Dr Mark; 13th November 2017 at 09:49 AM.

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