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Thread: How do I plumb in a heat exchanger?

  1. #1
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    How do I plumb in a heat exchanger?

    Following on from the other thread, my SVO is running well in my 1HDT motor, but because the HE was installed by the previous owner for showers, it's not the right unit, or in the right place for SVO.

    Consequently, the system has enormous thermal lag. Even when the thermostat indicates the motor is at the right temp, and the remote engine temp gauge reads >70 degrees, it takes a good 10 minutes for the CAV filter to get hot enough for me to switch to SVO.

    The plumbing is that it comes in, goes through the HE on top of the tappet cover against the firewall, from there into a Frantz, and from there through about 70cm of hose to a CAV, before the injector. I want to fit the second HE immediately upstream of the CAV but am a little puzzled by how to plumb it. The inlet ports on the Helton unit I am looking at appear to be about 12mm - far smaller than the heater hoses. How do I plumb it in? Does it have to tee off a larger heater hose? If so, how do I ensure the coolant circulates?

  2. #2
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    Re: How do I plumb in a heat exchanger?

    Your Franz is sucking all of the heat from your fuel, before it gets to the CAV.
    As stated before, (on another thread I think) install a small prefilter like this
    Click image for larger version. 

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    before the heat exchanger. This avoids the need for a second heat exchanger.
    Simple to do and negligible cost ($5 - 7) for the prefilter.
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    Toyota Camry Hybrid - (Wife's Car)

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]



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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    Perth
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    Re: How do I plumb in a heat exchanger?

    The Frantz is a necessary part of my setup. Although it is (apparently) prone to cavitation it pulls out very fine particles and is much more use than an inline filter (every one I have seen has ports too small anyway). The vid on the Helton website shows the bloke teeing off from the coolant line but I don't understand how the flow is directed into the branched line

  4. #4
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    Re: How do I plumb in a heat exchanger?

    The idea is to have the HE as close to the main filter as possible and plumb it in before it goes into the heater. Have my inline filters after the HE and as close to the change over valve as possible. My 1hdt had a HE for hotwater on it, they stupidly took out the plumbing for the A/c, so they could out the hotwater HE in. Have removed that and once the a/c is reconnected next week, will put the HE as first out of the engine, it will sit on the main filter bracket, with the inline between it and the change over valve.

    Also insulate my lines from the HE to the IP and insulate the Helton HE, which makes an amazing difference to performance and temp of oil. Also have a 12v push pump between the metal fuel line and HE, which does make a difference to performance.

    Heading to Aus for muso festivals at the end of the month, so won't be changing over to VO until after than. Will be a shock paying for fuel, but much better than stopping all the time to change inline filters and will be a once off. Luckily have the rest of the bands going as well, so will share the cost of dino.

    Have been caught out before by changing a vehicle to vo only to have lots of blocked inline filters, from all the crud coming off the tank and line walls. That normally takes a few months to clear up properly to get 2000+klms from an inline filter, until then may get from 60klms to a couple of hundred and mostly all have to do is blow the filter out and off you go again.

    Been using inline filters for well over 10 years and liked them so much, had 3000 made specifically for VO filtering. They work really well and at the price I paid, 1/3 you pay in the shops and those shop ones are for petrol and tend to block quicker. Mine seems to work well, until they suddenly collapse with junk and you start to slow down, which is an indication you need to change the filter.

    Franz filters tend to lose a huge amount of heat according to one I know who put one in his car. Ended up taking it out after many months of trouble, one time he had to clean the entire system because the toilet roll had disintegrated into a blobs and blocked the lines and ip. He switched to inline filters and seemed pretty happy with that approach last time saw him.
    Last edited by Alga; 15th October 2017 at 03:47 PM.

  5. #5
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    Re: How do I plumb in a heat exchanger?

    Hi Alga,

    Quote Originally Posted by Alga View Post
    Heading to Aus for muso festivals at the end of the month,...
    Tasmania is actually part of Aus


  6. #6
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    Re: How do I plumb in a heat exchanger?

    Dr Mark you seem stuck on using a Helton yet have already found one the many disadvantages they have compared with a proper flat plate stainless steel unit:
    1. They have welded on spigots so the hose size is fixed and often wrong for fuel lines. A proper HE has threaded ports which can accept all sizes of hose spigots.
    2.They are made of copper which while a good conductor has the problem of being attacked by vegetable oil. This is evidenced by crusty green muck building up in the pipes.
    3. They have a smaller heat exchanging area and are therefore less efficient than a flat plate HE.
    4. They are not cheaper than a flat plate but dearer, this is probably because they have been marketed as water heaters for camping showers where there is a huge market.
    Pointless suggestion it seems but the Franz is still not a suitable filter for vege oil as many here have said and several including me have proven by their own experience.
    On a positive note can you move anything in your engine bay to make room for vege filter and heat exchanger on the same side of the engine as the IP?
    Last edited by Johnnojack; 15th October 2017 at 09:27 PM.
    Johnnojack
    4WD Isuzu Jackaroo 3.1 170,000km on WVO,(2017) 2 tank home built system 6 solenoids. Mk. 9 version. Improvements under investigation

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Location
    WA
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    4,079

    Re: How do I plumb in a heat exchanger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Mark View Post
    The Frantz is a necessary part of my setup. Although it is (apparently) prone to cavitation it pulls out very fine particles and is much more use than an inline filter (every one I have seen has ports too small anyway). The vid on the Helton website shows the bloke teeing off from the coolant line but I don't understand how the flow is directed into the branched line
    Mark,
    Franz is your fixation, it is not a "necessary part" of your conversion. It is the CAUSE of most of your problems.
    I am fed up with your stubborn adherence to YOUR Mantra of having a Franz filter in your conversion.
    I will not provide any more advice on your conversion until you wake up and get rid of the Franz. It is pointless, giving advice as you will not act on it anyway!

    I have 2 Franz filters available , if anyone can use them, for FREE, as they were the cause of too much angst in WVO applications and were removed from service, providing improved WVO performance using one 10 plate FPHE, an inline fuel filter and the stock standard fuel filter for veggie fuel.
    They may be of use as bypass engine oil filters though.
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    Toyota Camry Hybrid - (Wife's Car)

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]



    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Tasmania
    Posts
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    Re: How do I plumb in a heat exchanger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnojack View Post
    Dr Mark you seem stuck on using a Helton yet have already found one the many disadvantages they have compared with a proper flat plate stainless steel unit:
    1. They have welded on spigots so the hose size is fixed and often wrong for fuel lines. A proper HE has threaded ports which can accept all sizes of hose spigots.
    2.They are made of copper which while a good conductor has the problem of being attacked by vegetable oil. This is evidenced by crusty green muck building up in the pipes.
    3. They have a smaller heat exchanging area and are therefore less efficient than a flat plate HE.
    4. They are not cheaper than a flat plate but dearer, this is probably because they have been marketed as water heaters for camping showers where there is a huge market.
    Pointless suggestion it seems but the Franz is still not a suitable filter for vege oil as many here have said and several including me have proven by their own experience.
    On a positive note can you move anything in your engine bay to make room for vege filter and heat exchanger on the same side of the engine as the IP?
    Johnno, been using heltons for over 10 years in 5 vehicles, the longest 60 series cruiser just sols and have never seen any green muck coming from the HE's. I use reducers when dealing with different size hoses and the vo HE's are not designed for heating water. The water heating ones are different..

    Had more trouble with flat plate HE's blocking, but that may be just me and the fact at the time had no experience with vo in cars. Temp of the oil at the iP is always around 70-85deg with my heltons, when you insulate them and they are much cheaper than all the flat plate I've seen. Which are designed for wine and spirit production mostly.

    What I like about the barrel he's is they fit in small places really easily and have a small footprint, but everyone has their own preferences which is good.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    128

    Re: How do I plumb in a heat exchanger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alga View Post
    Johnno, been using heltons for over 10 years in 5 vehicles, the longest 60 series cruiser just sols and have never seen any green muck coming from the HE's. I use reducers when dealing with different size hoses and the vo HE's are not designed for heating water. The water heating ones are different..

    Had more trouble with flat plate HE's blocking, but that may be just me and the fact at the time had no experience with vo in cars. Temp of the oil at the iP is always around 70-85deg with my heltons, when you insulate them and they are much cheaper than all the flat plate I've seen. Which are designed for wine and spirit production mostly.

    What I like about the barrel he's is they fit in small places really easily and have a small footprint, but everyone has their own preferences which is good.
    Yes that's what I like about them too. And the oil is already coming in at 55 degrees, which is running fine in the car, I just want to reduce the thermal inertia of the system by fitting it upstream of the CAV and reducing the time for the switch over to WVO. So it doesn't need to be the most efficient HE in the world. How do you plumb it in? Is it just teed off the main heater hose and you just rely on enough coolant flowing through the smaller diameter to get the job done? I'd also be happy

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Tasmania
    Posts
    494

    Re: How do I plumb in a heat exchanger?

    I run the heated water from the engine directly to the HE, then back to the car heater inlet. If you use a T, you may find you only get a good supply of hot water when the car heater is switched off and with a T, you then have to plumb the HE back into the system. If you connect it directly from the engine to the HE, then back to the car heater, you get a constant supply of hot water and don't have lots of connections. Keep it simple I always say and it will work.

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