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Thread: Blending Diesel with Filtered Vegetable Oil?

  1. #1
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    Blending Diesel with Filtered Vegetable Oil?

    I am a complete novice to the whole BioFuel scene, so am fully prepared to be shot down on this question, but has anyone tried blending a small amount (say 5 -10%) of filtered frying oil with regular diesel as an additive of sorts. I've heard of olive oil being used as an additive commercially, but is it possible to take it to the next level and blend diesel with vegetable oil? I'm fully aware of the risks of gumming up the injectors etc, but figured that if the percentage was kept relatively low, and a thinning agent used, it might burn off OK with minimal residue. Obviously the savings would be relatively small, but if I am getting the oil for free, it would represent a 5-10% discount on my fuel costs. Any comments?

  2. #2
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    Re: Blending Diesel with Filtered Vegetable Oil?

    Hi AusKiwi,

    Blending is an accepted method of using Veg oil but it does depend on which engine you will use it in and the type of fuel injection installed on the engine.
    Typically people will use something around 90%- 95% filtered veg oil blended/ mixed with 5%-10% petrol as a fuel.

    This summer I was running on a blend of 1/3 veg oil and 2/3 biodiesel.
    In the winter I go back to 100% biodiesel.

  3. #3
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    Re: Blending Diesel with Filtered Vegetable Oil?

    AusKiwi,
    Welcome to the forum.
    Mostly we are a friendly bunch who love to help others, but don't take offence if someone posts something which may offend. This is Australia after all.
    Quote Originally Posted by AusKiwi View Post
    I am a complete novice to the whole BioFuel scene, so am fully prepared to be shot down on this question, but has anyone tried blending a small amount (say 5 -10%) of filtered frying oil with regular diesel as an additive of sorts. I've heard of olive oil being used as an additive commercially, but is it possible to take it to the next level and blend diesel with vegetable oil? I'm fully aware of the risks of gumming up the injectors etc, but figured that if the percentage was kept relatively low, and a thinning agent used, it might burn off OK with minimal residue. Obviously the savings would be relatively small, but if I am getting the oil for free, it would represent a 5-10% discount on my fuel costs. Any comments?
    Q1. What vehicle are you planning to use this fuel in? Search our Vehicles using vegetable oil fuel in this forum, others may already be using the same vehicle.
    Q2. If post 2000, it most likely has a Common Rail Diesel engine. While it is possible to use vegetable oil fuels in a CRD engine, there is not much experience of this being done in Australia, so I would not recommend it unless you are able to diagnose fuel related issues on these engines.
    Q3. If pre-2000, does it have an direct injected or indirect injected engine? Indirect injection engines are more tolerant of vegetable oil fuel than Direct injection engines. Direct Injected engines should start and stop on diesel to prevent issues with blocked injector nozzles (due to vegetable oil drying in the injector).
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP)


    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    Parts Car C220 1993 SOLD.
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).


    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  4. #4
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    Re: Blending Diesel with Filtered Vegetable Oil?

    The car I drive is a 2003 Citroen C5 2.0 HDi. It is a common rail engine but doesn't have a DPF. I wouldn't want to run 100% vegetable oil in it for sure, but was thinking there might be a blend of 5-10% that would work. I have read of other Peugeot HDi owners (same engine) running vege oil in their vehicles. But all this is hypothetical right now. I messaged my local fish and chip shop yesterday and he told me his oil was recycled under contract so he couldn't help me. I have a feeling all the supplies of free oil have dried up now.

    I also found this document which suggested that a 1:8 blend is a good percentage (12.5%) https://genesisnow.com.au/Idea004.pdf
    Last edited by AusKiwi; 3rd May 2018 at 10:22 AM.

  5. #5
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    Re: Blending Diesel with Filtered Vegetable Oil?

    Hi AusKiwi,

    Quote Originally Posted by AusKiwi View Post
    The car I drive is a 2003 Citroen C5 2.0 HDi.
    I also found this document which suggested that a 1:8 blend is a good percentage (12.5%) https://genesisnow.com.au/Idea004.pdf
    I read the site you linked to and did not see any mention of the 2003 PSA 2.0 HDi diesel engine that is in your car.

    Direct injection engines are a bit of an unknown quantity with regards to what alternative fuels will or will not work in them.
    The manufacturers will ALWAYS tell you that you can not use any percentage of veg oil and warn of the dire consequences if you do use them.
    Most people, being mindful of the dire warnings from the manufacturers and having spent a lot of money purchasing their car, are reluctant to experiment.

    Unless you can locate someone who has actually done the testing on a car with your engine and has posted the results, the only option is for you to have a go and see what happens.
    If you do please let us know the results.

  6. #6
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    Re: Blending Diesel with Filtered Vegetable Oil?

    I also found this document which suggested that a 1:8 blend is a good percentage (12.5%) https://genesisnow.com.au/Idea004.pdf
    That document has a significant error that keeps being repeated by most people who promote the use of vegetable oil fuels.

    Rudolph Diesel did NOT design the engine to use vegetable oils!
    At the 1900 Paris Exhibition, he noted that a group sponsored by the French government was running the engine on Peanut oil and was very supportive of them.
    I have a copy of a foreword that he wrote, for a book titled 'Diesel Engines for Land and Marine Work', detailing the above. I have a copy of that foreword (not the book though )
    I have tried to upload the images, but could not. Here is a copy of the relevant text in the foreword:

    But it is not yet generally known that it is possible to use animal and vegetable oils direct in Diesel motors. In 1900 a small Diesel engine was exhibited at the Paris exhibition by the Otto Company which, on the suggestion of the French Government, was run on Arachide oil, and operated so well that very few people were aware of the fact. The motor was built for ordinary oils, and without any modification was run on vegetable oil. I have recently repeated these experiments on a large scale with full success and entire confirmation of the results formerly obtained. The French Government had in mind the utilization of the large quantities of arachide or ground nuts available in the African colonies and easy to cultivate, for, by this means, the colonies can be provided with power and industries, without the necessity of importing coal or liquid fuel.
    Similar experiments have also been made in St, Petersburg with castor oil, have been tried with perfect success.
    If at present the applicability of vegetable and animal oils to Diesel motors seems insignificant, it may develop in the course of time to reach an importance equal to that of natural liquid fuels and tar oil. Twelve years ago we were no more advanced with the tar oils than to-day is the case with the vegetable oils; and how important have they now become!
    We cannot predict at present the role which these oils will have to play in the colonies in days to come. However, they give the certainty that motive power can be produced by the agricultural transformation of the heat of the sun, even when our total natural store of solid and liquid fuel will be exhausted.

    I have the foreword scanned pages in a Zip file. If anyone wants a copy, please message me - requesting a copy and providing your email address.
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP)


    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    Parts Car C220 1993 SOLD.
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).


    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  7. #7
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    Re: Blending Diesel with Filtered Vegetable Oil?

    Here is a link to a scan of the Book:
    https://archive.org/stream/dieseleng...e/n18/mode/2up

    The foreword starts on page 20/303

    Sorry for hijacking this thread but I get a bit anal about this topic when people repeat incorrect information as per the linked website information.
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP)


    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    Parts Car C220 1993 SOLD.
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).


    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  8. #8
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    Dec 2013
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Posts
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    Re: Blending Diesel with Filtered Vegetable Oil?

    Quote Originally Posted by tillyfromparadise View Post
    Hi AusKiwi,

    I read the site you linked to and did not see any mention of the 2003 PSA 2.0 HDi diesel engine that is in your car.

    No, it was just the general principle of blending diesel with vege oil that I was referring to, and the ratio that they came up with.
    My intention is to start with a very small percentage such as 1% and keep increasing it up to the 12.5% level if there are no problems.

    Direct injection engines are a bit of an unknown quantity with regards to what alternative fuels will or will not work in them.
    The manufacturers will ALWAYS tell you that you can not use any percentage of veg oil and warn of the dire consequences if you do use them.
    Most people, being mindful of the dire warnings from the manufacturers and having spent a lot of money purchasing their car, are reluctant to experiment.

    Unless you can locate someone who has actually done the testing on a car with your engine and has posted the results, the only option is for you to have a go and see what happens.
    If you do please let us know the results.
    I found a few sites relating to the Peugeot HDi engine running on vege oil blend, below is one of them:
    (the advice seems to be mixed, but there are definitely people out there who say they have done it, and in higher concentrations than I am planning)

    http://www.peugeotforums.com/forums/...oil-mix-72249/

    The only thing holding me back right now is finding a free or cheap local source of oil. The cheapest vegetable oil in the supermarket is currently $2.20/litre. I am sure it must be possible to buy used oil for less than that. I had a reply from one fish and chip shop owner who was helpful but told me he used lard so I had to tell him that would not work. I hate to think what a mess that would make of my injectors. It seems this whole industry has turned into a cartel where the big players have got all the restaurants signed into contracts and there is no way of accessing waste oil any more. I contacted one recycler asking if he could supply me and he told me they only sell to "licensed recycling companies under EPA Guidelines." I felt like replying to say I wasn't thinking of setting up a recycling plant, just pouring the oil in my fuel tank. I'd probably be pushing water uphill with them though. Another company advertises that the smallest container size they sell is 205 litre steel drums. To be honest, if I could just buy 2 litre bottles and throw them in the recycling when I'm done, that would suit me just fine. It's just the pricing that's the issue. $4.40 from Woollies, no. A dollar or less, that would be worth doing. But of course, that's probably unrealistic.Unless someone on the Gold Coast has "oil coming out of their ears". I'd be round there in a flash offering hard cash for their liquid gold. If somebody reading this is that person, please reply and make my day...
    Last edited by AusKiwi; 4th May 2018 at 10:12 PM.

  9. #9
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    Re: Blending Diesel with Filtered Vegetable Oil?

    The only thing holding me back right now is finding a free or cheap local source of oil. The cheapest vegetable oil in the supermarket is currently $2.20/litre. I am sure it must be possible to buy used oil for less than that. I had a reply from one fish and chip shop

    Hi Auskiwi
    Paying anything for oil is against my ideal of alternative fuels. I am lucky enough to drive a car that runs on 100% waste vege oil (WVO) with no modification other than dewatering and filtering. I ensure I collect WVO that has very little fat and therefore remains liquid, which is easier to achieve here in Queensland than southern states at this time of year. So avoid the likes of fish n chip shops etc that also cook a lot of fatty animal meats such as hamburgers. I get some really nice clean and liquid oils from a sushi restaurant. Some Thai restaurants are also good.
    I established a relationship with a restaurant where I call in, provide an empty 25 or 20 litre container and take away the full/partly full one. By providing a dependable service that saves them carrying waste oil out the back of the shopping centre it is a win-win.
    Hope this helps.
    Regards Harvey
    Harvey
    1983 BJ42 Landcruiser
    1997 C250TD Mercedes-Benz

  10. #10
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    Gold Coast
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    Re: Blending Diesel with Filtered Vegetable Oil?

    Thanks for your comment Harvey. Unfortunately I have a common rail diesel so can't run 100% WVO but would like to try maybe up to 10% with other additives to ensure clean burning. What is the best kind of container in your experience? Does it have to be an open pail or can it be a container with a neck? I have a couple of old 10L oil bottles and wondered if the restaurants could fill that assuming they have some kind of drain tap on their fryer.

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