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Thread: Advise on heaters please.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2

    Advise on heaters please.

    Hi all,
    this is my first post, but i just wanted to say thankyou for all the excellent advice i've allready gleamed from this forum.

    Right - this is my first time looking into SVO. I have just brought a nissan vanette cargo 2.3d, which i am looking to run a single tank SVO solution.

    After a few design revisions, i was set to run from the fuel tank, through a small glow plug heater into the main filter, out of the filter, into a tigerloop, on the tigerloop to IP i was placing a heat exchanger, and then planning another small glow plug heater (with after filter), then IP, returning to the tigerloop.

    BUT...i have since read a few disparranging comments about these glow plug heaters,lol.

    what devices/methods would you suggest for heating before the main filter, and also is one advised after the heat exchange in the tigerloop section?

    The idea of the one in the loop was to heat the oil until the exchange started working.

    Also i have brought a exchange (ebay no.150211213862), but after looking into your forum more - is this up for the job, or do i need to have a FTHE?

    I would be grateful for any advise offered.

    And once again, many thanks for all the excellent info so far.

    craig

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Perth Western Australia
    Posts
    931

    Re: Advise on heaters please.

    Craig,

    Welcome to our side of the world.

    Yes you do need a way of heating the oil.
    You're unlikely to get much support on this forum for a single tank system, tho I do understand you are trying to electrically heat your oil prior to starting the engine.

    I do not feel the ebay heat exchanger item 150211213862 will do very much for a couple of reasons. First, their claims are false, second the transfer area is quite small. Their claims are false because using coolant as a heat source we cannot get WVO to the same viscosity of diesel - which is what they claim. From memory, 150C is the magic number to do that and I think your Vanette would not like being run at 150C for too long

    You will get lots of support from this forum for a 30 plate heat exchanger simply because they are very effective. I used a 10 plate for a couple of years and thought it was okay, but have been surprised at the extra temperature I have now got from a 30 plate. The area for transferring heat is many many times that of your ebay heat exchanger. It 'might' be useful to turn into a hot water unit for a shower, but probably not even that.

    BJBlaster starts up on oil as far as I know, and he has an excellent comprehensive website on his many and varied projects. You can find him via a search.

    The problem with electrically heating your oil prior to starting is two fold. One is the question of the time and therefore electrical draw on your battery it will take to heat the oil. The second is that you are not heating the oil in the injection pump and the injectors, and these are the critical components you must have liquid oil in to start your motor.

    With the cold temperatures you experience all year round - or so it seems to us here you run a great risk of solid fat blocking your IP for a startup.

    I don't know what a tiger loop is. I loop the return line that comes from the outlet of my injection pump back into the supply line just prior to my separate lift or transfer or priming pump. Maybe a tiger loop has a GP heater in it. Dunno, tell us more. Personally I don't like electrical heating.

    You will need a heat source prior to your first filters, and according to Fitian, you need one after that as well to replace the heat you lose in the filters.

    I suspect your Vanette has an indirect injection engine, so your plans to run a single tank has more hope of being successful than a direct injection. You could do your installation, then run a blend of WVO and something to see how it goes. Don't blend with petrol and then heat the blend - bad things happen, or they did with me anyway.

    Good luck.

    Tim
    Toyota Landcruiser 1988 HJ61 Manual Wagon
    12H-T turbo Direct Injection.
    Twin Tank setup runs on 100% WVO after warm up. 30 plate FPHE with 80C output, 12mm fuel lines
    Start up and shut down electric fuel pump feeds IP direct.
    Front 4WDSytstems Lokka, Rear ARB airlokka for quick escapes up sandhills. Performance GTurbo with 600mm FMIC gives 450nm @ 1700rpm at 20psi boost.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Hobart
    Posts
    64

    Re: Advise on heaters please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim-HJ61 View Post
    You could do your installation, then run a blend of WVO and something to see how it goes. Don't blend with petrol and then heat the blend - bad things happen, or they did with me anyway.
    What did happen with the heated ULP/WVO blend?
    MQ Patrol - WVO since 2005

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Perth Western Australia
    Posts
    931

    Re: Advise on heaters please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Ute View Post
    What did happen with the heated ULP/WVO blend?
    Real bad preignition. Deep rumbling noise/vibration from inside the engine when under power. The blend was about 15% ULP and I ran it through the heat exchanger. I thought I'd destroyed the engine - it was a very bad feeling.

    If I had had a tap on the coolant side of the HE, I would have been able to turn it off and the problem would have gone away most likely. I have a mate running a 15% ULP/ 85% WVO blend on a IDI Landcruiser and has no preheating.

    Let's not divert onto blending.

    To keep the thread on heaters, it is an idea to instal a tap so you can turn off the heat if you need to run diesel and have run out of WVO for example.

    Tim
    Toyota Landcruiser 1988 HJ61 Manual Wagon
    12H-T turbo Direct Injection.
    Twin Tank setup runs on 100% WVO after warm up. 30 plate FPHE with 80C output, 12mm fuel lines
    Start up and shut down electric fuel pump feeds IP direct.
    Front 4WDSytstems Lokka, Rear ARB airlokka for quick escapes up sandhills. Performance GTurbo with 600mm FMIC gives 450nm @ 1700rpm at 20psi boost.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2

    Re: Advise on heaters please.

    Hi Tim (and all),

    cheers mate for the advise!

    Agreeing with what u said, i've since learnt that the Heat Exchange i got will not do the job...i need a FPHE...as you said maybe a 30 plate.

    I think i will use the one i have now, as the pre filter exchange, then put a proper FPHE as the main heater.

    The tigerloop is officially an oil de-aerator, but many seem to be using it as a return, not to the tank, but to the post filter heater....basically losing the fuel tank return line, and making a loop of warmed SVO into the IP.

    Your comments are spot on with my thought's, about the pre coollant warmed heating, currant draw and all.

    many thanks

    craig

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    South Coast, NSW
    Posts
    870

    Re: Advise on heaters please.

    Quote Originally Posted by zaph View Post
    I think i will use the one i have now, as the pre filter exchange, then put a proper FPHE as the main heater.
    Hi craig,

    I think most would agree that heating before the filter is the MOST critical to avoid fats bloking filter. so i would suggest doing the opposite. Ie fuel tank - 30plate FPHE - filter - HE you have already - IP.

    Note i don't and never have run SVO so don't take my advice alone as it is just how i interpreded information from this forum.

    goodluck mate.
    Cheers
    Nick.
    Harold 2002 Toyota Landcruiser 105 series. 4.2lt turbo glide turbo, Too lazy to make bio nowdays times money. 3'' lift.

    Roidio 2001 Holden Rodeo 4x4 2.8L TD. 2.5" exhaust sytem, H/E shower system. 4" Lift, Airbags, And lots of fruit, B100 for 55,000 . SOLD

    Elsa 1983 Mercedes-Benz W123 300D. Still The Fastest Merc in Oz, Self built and Female proofed. COUSINS NOW

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