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Thread: The effect of oil temperature on IP temp and vice versa.

  1. #1
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    Re: hj75 landcruiser 2H motor

    MY OPINION ONLY - OTHERS WILL PROBABLY DISAGREE:

    As long as the lift pump can deliver oil at correct pressure to the IP, regardless of the temp of the incoming oil, the IP will warm the oil to IP temp', which will be close to coolant temp' (may be hotter). Some of this heat may be lost as the oil passes through the injector lines to the injectors.
    Last edited by Tony From West Oz; 9th May 2008 at 02:52 AM. Reason: Section relevant to this thread only

  2. #2
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    Re: hj75 landcruiser 2H motor

    Quote Originally Posted by 98troopy View Post
    the IP will warm the oil to IP temp',
    This is not proven as a rule for all IP's.
    Last edited by Tony From West Oz; 9th May 2008 at 02:52 AM. Reason: Section relevant to this thread only.
    Cheers
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  3. #3
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    Re: hj75 landcruiser 2H motor

    What I believe happens with a cold IP, is that despite having the fuel at ~80C, if the IP is at 10C, the fuel pumped will also be at or near 10C, until the fuel has transferred sufficient heat to the IP to raise its temperature.
    Similarly, if the IP is at ~80C and the oil is at 10C, the oil will be heated in the IP to close to 80C.

    My reasoning for this belief is that the IP is a lump of metal, vastly greater in mass than the oil passing thru it at any point in time. Metal has a specific heat much greater than fuel has, so the impact of a small amount of oil entering an IP which is at a different temperature will be minimal, but the impact of the IP on the oil will be great.

    Please discuss this belief to see if we can come to some agreement.


    Over to you . . .

    Tony

  4. #4
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    Re: The effect of oil temperature on IP temp and vice versa.

    I put a Tee fitting with a heat sensor on the return fuel line in the 1995-75 series three days ago 9 am. This is before the conversion.

    The temprature of the returned fuel "Diesel" have reached hardly below 40 degrees C after driving for nearly 18 km from dead cold.

    Next day, 8:30 am with one 30 FPHE before a CAV filter installed.

    The temprature of the returned fuel "diesel" have reached to below 55 degrees C after driving for less than 5 kms from dead cold. And got to up to below 65 degrees C after driving for 15 km. from dead cold.

    Next day 9:45 am when conversion is complete. with extra FPHEs installed before the IP.

    The temprature of returned fuel "diesel" have reached 65 degrees C after less than 2.5 km. And got to up to below 80 degrees after driving for 8 km. from dead cold.

    The temprature of returned fuel "WVO" have reached 60 degrees C after less than 3 km. And got to up to below 70 degrees after driving for 10 km. from dead cold.

    The sensor is fitted to a brass fitting and it is likely to have gained some heat from the engine bay.

    I am happy to repeat the same test in my next conversion "different vehicle".

    I hope this means something.
    Last edited by Fitian; 9th May 2008 at 10:42 AM.
    Fitian
    <><

  5. #5
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    Re: The effect of oil temperature on IP temp and vice versa.

    Quote Originally Posted by 98troopy View Post
    Firstly thanks for sharing the data.
    I'm not quite clear on the above. On the second day "one 30 FPHE before a CAV filter installed" was this fitted to the diesel system?
    You are welcome. This was fitted as part of the conversion No WVO in either tanks.
    Fitian
    <><

  6. #6
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    Re: The effect of oil temperature on IP temp and vice versa.

    The point I am trying to make here is that the temperature of the IP, being a relatively large piece of metal has a greater effect on the temperature of the oil at a point in time than the oil has on the IP.
    eg, oil at 70C entering an IP (10C), will exit the IP very close to 10C

    Over time, however, the continued influence of the oil will make significant changes to the temperature of the IP, where a difference in temperature exists.

    Fitian,
    Your data supports the impact of heated oil on a cold IP, over time.

    It is like having a very small heating element in a large kettle. It takes a long time to have an effect, but it does heat the kettle up significantly over time.

    Regards,
    Tony

  7. #7
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    Re: The effect of oil temperature on IP temp and vice versa.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony From West Oz View Post
    Fitian,
    Your data supports the impact of heated oil on a cold IP, over time.
    Regards,
    Tony
    No it does not. Please note that the very first test was done with no heated fuel what so ever.

    In the second test, I had the pollak valve installed and I drove on cold fuel then switched to heated diesel and the temp went right up instantly at the return line. This shows that the IP does not have huge impact.

    When the vehicle was driven from dead cold and the engine, IP and the fuel "diesel" were all dead cold the return line read hardly 40 degrees C after 18 kms.

    When the fuel was heated via 30 FPHE the return line read 55 degrees within less than 5 kms.

    The cold IP took 18 km to show 40 degrees without any external heating for the fuel. While when the fuel was heated the temprature on the fuel showed a noticeable reading within 5 km.

    The cold IP did not have high effect on the heated fuel entring it.

    I did this test and I did not believe that the return line is reliable factor to take into account but I just did it for the sake of testing.

    The IP is not a mass of metal that the fuel enters otherwise it would have cooled the heated fuel down.


    Regards,
    Fitian
    <><

  8. #8
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    Re: The effect of oil temperature on IP temp and vice versa.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony From West Oz View Post
    oil at 70C entering an IP (10C), will exit the IP very close to 10C
    Tony
    In my test, the heated oil entered the IP and came out at near temp. it entered at.

    After driving for 3 km the FPHEs got the oil/diese temp to nearly 65 degrees. and this is what came out via the return line. The IP in my first test had no effect on cold fuel after 5 km and also had no effect on hot fuel after 3 kms.

    Regards,
    Fitian
    <><

  9. #9
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    Re: The effect of oil temperature on IP temp and vice versa.

    Quote Originally Posted by 98troopy View Post
    Still, as best I can tell it seems that Fitian is now fitting a CAV and HE to the diesel side as wellas the veg side..
    Where did I say that I have fitted a CAV and FPHE on the diesel line.

    You asked me to explain and I did but you don't understand still.

    I HAVE DONE MY TESTING WITH DIESEL FIRST.
    THE VEHICLE COMES WITH TWO TANKS.
    ONE LINE IS NOT HEATED
    THE OTHER LINE IS HEATED.
    I DO NOT INSTALL A CAV AND FPHE FOR DIESEL. LOOK AT YOUR VEHCILE.

    GOT THAT?
    Fitian
    <><

  10. #10
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    Re: The effect of oil temperature on IP temp and vice versa.

    Fitian,
    If you had hot oil and a cold IP, when the oil entered the IP, what temperature would that oil come out of the IP within seconds of it going in?
    Can you record the oil temp and flow, in and out of the IP?

    After 3 Km, it has pushed many litres of oil thru the IP, each mL causing a minute amount of heat gain of the metal in the IP.
    I acknowledge that the ongoing effect of heated oil entering the IP will cause it to heat up (or cool down) to "close to the temperature of the oil", but I would like to clarify that the point of this thread is about the time the oil takes to traverse thru the IP, not over a period of time longer than that.

    Thanks,
    Tony

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