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Thread: Petrol is just going to cost a lot. I don't get the uproar.

  1. #21
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    Re: Petrol is just going to cost a lot. I don't get the uproar.

    Electric cars, have been around a very long time. The problem has always been the cost, safety, and performance of batteries. Have you ever seen the much vaunted Indian electric car??? No one in their right mind would allow this dangerous, crappy little vehicle on an Australian road. !!

    There is no mass production, realistically priced, electric car currently in production, anywhere in world.

    The 'Blade Runner" is just as it name suggests a poorly plagiarized old Hyundai with an electric motor and incredibly dangerous battery storage installation. Yes, it's always been possible to build your own electric car, but no one wants to share the road with homebuilt potentially lethal machines. Even electric conversations that acquire engineering certificates when first built, become a liability as they grow older in states which do not have periodic mandatory inspections.

  2. #22
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    Thumbs up Re: Petrol is just going to cost a lot. I don't get the uproar.

    Quote Originally Posted by xavier View Post
    Electric cars, have been around a very long time. The problem has always been the cost, safety, and performance of batteries. Have you ever seen the much vaunted Indian electric car??? No one in their right mind would allow this dangerous, crappy little vehicle on an Australian road. !!

    There is no mass production, realistically priced, electric car currently in production, anywhere in world.

    The 'Blade Runner" is just as it name suggests a poorly plagiarized old Hyundai with an electric motor and incredibly dangerous battery storage installation. Yes, it's always been possible to build your own electric car, but no one wants to share the road with homebuilt potentially lethal machines. Even electric conversations that acquire engineering certificates when first built, become a liability as they grow older in states which do not have periodic mandatory inspections.
    You've got to be kidding xavier, you sound like you know nothing about the vast improvements in electric vehicles! You have not done your homework mate! Have a look at this electric car out of China! Personaly I like these Roadsters, also out of China, and at $3,500 to $5,500 they're well within most peoples price range...off-course that's American dollars we're talking! But at $3,500 to $5,500...American or Australian dollars, every man and his dog could aford to buy and run one of these roadsters out of China! Off-course by the time they hit Aussie roads, what with government taxes and what nots, plus big business building in a profits...they'll probley be selling for $35,500 to Aussies!
    If the Chinese EVs are to slow for you, then how about building an EV for yourself, it's not too hard and it's not too expensive! You could build something with a Top Speed 85 MPH (136 KPH) with a Range of 120 Miles (193 Kilometers) on the freeway or 150 city miles! and you could have seating capacity for 2 adults comfortably, or 4 using jump seats!
    By the way, the car I described above is not pie-in-the-sky! It was built some years ago by a elderly gent, in his 70s, who has since passed over, you can check-it-out here! While you're visiting that site, have a look at the other 1,625 Electric Vehicles on show...Then "try" telling me EVs are a no go!

    Bill from Corio!
    Who says you can't teach old dogs new tricks?
    This old dog has been learning new tricks for years and...
    I hope I can continue to do so!:cool:

  3. #23
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    Re: Petrol is just going to cost a lot. I don't get the uproar.

    G'day, Bill,

    While I admire your enthusiasm, I have just returned from the PRC and inspected most of products you mention. The "Chinese" electric cars you mention are either simply concept vehicles, rehashed Smart or other Japanese hatchbacks. None of these vehicles could be road registered in Australia, nor in all truth, would anyone be idiotic enough to buy one as a serious replacement for a normal vehicle. As far as battery technology goes, well I'm sorry to say that PRC companies are prone to blurring what they would like to be true, with reality. It may come as a shock to fan's of the PRC to discover that Chinese corporations are not all that truthful in their claims and speculative press releases, and just like most western press releases should be taken with a grain of salt!

    The figures you quote of $3500 to $5,500 are just plain silly, add up the (manufacture) component prices of the worlds cheapest production car, deduct the drive train and then add batteries, computer, electric drive train, etc and you will start to understand why such pricing is unrealistic. On top of these costs a manufacturer must add a myriad of other expenses to cover warranties, dealer charges, liability claims, compliance, currency fluctuations, capital costs and all the hundreds of costs that beset corporations and eat into what you imagine to be greedily excessive profits.

    Don't believe me? well give Bowell (probably Australia's most successfully independent specialist auto, now scooter, maker,) a ring and you will receive an education into the difficulties experienced by even experienced manufacturers. Better still talk to the very successful and highly respected maker of the Vectrix electric maxi -scooter.

    The Top Gear program featuring the Indian electric car was a little over the top, but really did illustrate what a totally impractical, unsafe, useless product it is. I have also visited both Tesla and its US rivals and although the advances in technology are astonishing, it is easy to see why such vehicles are very expensive and still not really fully developed. Likewise the GM's US 3.7 billion Chevy Volt shows great promise, it also shows how difficult it is to mass produce a competitive electric car.

    The place to look for advances it battery technology is South Korea as they cheerfully ignore US patent protections because of the special access through an old US/South Korea military treaty. (US patents of national interest cannot be withheld from the US military).

    The best hope, for the future for mass produced electric vehicles is the race between Nissan/European partners, Toyota, and Mazda/Ford to be the first to successfully release a mass produced electric car before 2012

    Bill, I know it's a hard concept to grasp, but the major auto manufacturers are not in some giant conspiracy with governments to prevent new technology. In fact the majors, including all the Japanese, are spending vast sums to improve battery technology.

    The simple reason that electric cars are unable to compete, is they are to slow to travel at freeway speeds, the range is very limited( if operated under normal driving conditions), the present enormous cost of batteries, and the difficulties of safely accommodating heavy batteries.

    As for building your own car, well, as I said, it has always been possible to adapt an existing car/ute to be electrically powered. Although, it would be very expensive to build and perform poorly, I am sure it would provide great fun and entertainment for the hobbyist to build. Having said that, I am still not sure that I would really want my family to share the road with some hobbyist vehicles.

    But hey, if you want the electric experience at freeway speeds, buy a Vectrix Maxi-Scooter and wait until 2012, for the planned Japanese models. Currently I drive a Lexus GS 450h, far from fully electric but still an interesting compromise.

  4. #24
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    Re: Petrol is just going to cost a lot. I don't get the uproar.

    Quote Originally Posted by xavier View Post
    Currently I drive a Lexus GS 450h, far from fully electric but still an interesting compromise.
    Xavier,

    I total see eye to eye with you on all of your previous post except this..
    What are you thinking you actually drive a Hybrid lexus you have to be kidding right? ?
    Cheers
    Nick.
    Harold 2002 Toyota Landcruiser 105 series. 4.2lt turbo glide turbo, Too lazy to make bio nowdays times money. 3'' lift.

    Roidio 2001 Holden Rodeo 4x4 2.8L TD. 2.5" exhaust sytem, H/E shower system. 4" Lift, Airbags, And lots of fruit, B100 for 55,000 . SOLD

    Elsa 1983 Mercedes-Benz W123 300D. Still The Fastest Merc in Oz, Self built and Female proofed. COUSINS NOW

  5. #25
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    Re: Petrol is just going to cost a lot. I don't get the uproar.

    I am getting tired of the spin being generated. Hybrids may help but they still use petrol. I believe the benefits are negligable on the open road on long trips considering the extra weight etc. LPG is still being kept at parity with the price of petrol. Half the price but half ther distance. No solution to long haul trucking has been put forward by the governement. No wonder we are sceptical.
    Last edited by smokey2; 13th June 2008 at 12:37 PM.

  6. #26
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    Unhappy Re: Petrol is just going to cost a lot. I don't get the uproar.

    Quote Originally Posted by xavier View Post
    G'day, Bill,

    While I admire your enthusiasm, I have just returned from the PRC and inspected most of products you mention. The "Chinese" electric cars you mention are either simply concept vehicles, rehashed Smart or other Japanese hatchbacks. None of these vehicles could be road registered in Australia, nor in all truth, would anyone be idiotic enough to buy one as a serious replacement for a normal vehicle. As far as battery technology goes, well I'm sorry to say that PRC companies are prone to blurring what they would like to be true, with reality. It may come as a shock to fan's of the PRC to discover that Chinese corporations are not all that truthful in their claims and speculative press releases, and just like most western press releases should be taken with a grain of salt!

    The figures you quote of $3500 to $5,500 are just plain silly, add up the (manufacture) component prices of the worlds cheapest production car, deduct the drive train and then add batteries, computer, electric drive train, etc and you will start to understand why such pricing is unrealistic. On top of these costs a manufacturer must add a myriad of other expenses to cover warranties, dealer charges, liability claims, compliance, currency fluctuations, capital costs and all the hundreds of costs that beset corporations and eat into what you imagine to be greedily excessive profits.

    Don't believe me? well give Bowell (probably Australia's most successfully independent specialist auto, now scooter, maker,) a ring and you will receive an education into the difficulties experienced by even experienced manufacturers. Better still talk to the very successful and highly respected maker of the Vectrix electric maxi -scooter.

    The Top Gear program featuring the Indian electric car was a little over the top, but really did illustrate what a totally impractical, unsafe, useless product it is. I have also visited both Tesla and its US rivals and although the advances in technology are astonishing, it is easy to see why such vehicles are very expensive and still not really fully developed. Likewise the GM's US 3.7 billion Chevy Volt shows great promise, it also shows how difficult it is to mass produce a competitive electric car.

    The place to look for advances it battery technology is South Korea as they cheerfully ignore US patent protections because of the special access through an old US/South Korea military treaty. (US patents of national interest cannot be withheld from the US military).

    The best hope, for the future for mass produced electric vehicles is the race between Nissan/European partners, Toyota, and Mazda/Ford to be the first to successfully release a mass produced electric car before 2012

    Bill, I know it's a hard concept to grasp, but the major auto manufacturers are not in some giant conspiracy with governments to prevent new technology. In fact the majors, including all the Japanese, are spending vast sums to improve battery technology.

    The simple reason that electric cars are unable to compete, is they are to slow to travel at freeway speeds, the range is very limited( if operated under normal driving conditions), the present enormous cost of batteries, and the difficulties of safely accommodating heavy batteries.

    As for building your own car, well, as I said, it has always been possible to adapt an existing car/ute to be electrically powered. Although, it would be very expensive to build and perform poorly, I am sure it would provide great fun and entertainment for the hobbyist to build. Having said that, I am still not sure that I would really want my family to share the road with some hobbyist vehicles.

    But hey, if you want the electric experience at freeway speeds, buy a Vectrix Maxi-Scooter and wait until 2012, for the planned Japanese models. Currently I drive a Lexus GS 450h, far from fully electric but still an interesting compromise.
    G'day mates,

    I could be wrong here but I don't think so! I believe that 95% or perhaps more, of the worlds “useful” inventions, items like the wheel, bow and arrow, flying machines, motor cars, boats, electric light, refrigeration, the telephone and so many other items/products, were all ideas in the minds of individuals, and brought into creation by the same individuals...Not multinational companies or other big businesses of the day.

    Big business, to the best of my knowledge, seem to be great at searching-out and buying-up useful inventions created by individuals for the good of all, to make sure those inventions never see the light of day! The creators, who are after all only human, can not resist, and who can blame them, the millions offered by the big boys of the business world! The only time “any” of those great inventions are ever seen by Joe Public is when the big boys are dead sure “they” will make a dollar...Not loose a dollar, from the inventions...and of-course if the money saving inventions are ever released to the world, the big boys claim the invention as their own but...In most cases not one of those inventions aimed at saving us money will ever see the light of day!

    As for electric cars, or cars in general, most people use a car for running around locally, dropping the kid/s at school, doing the shopping, getting to work and the majority of our workers work locally so they have no need for a 500kmph speed machine, nor do they need a semi trailer to do the shopping! I for one could use this bloke from Miltons electric car as my everyday vehicle and would be happy to do so!

    The bloke in Melton, Victoria has converted a Daihatsu Charade to an EV, it has a top speed of 68 MPH (109 KPH), a range of 81 Miles (130 Kilometers) between charges. Plenty fast enough for most people and most people do not travel 130KM around town shopping or getting to work so the range is okay too!

    The conversion has cost him $19,600 (AUD) And I believe that included the cost of buying the Charade! (the whole lot works out to be cheaper than your hybrid I think xavier Even if the owner lived in Geelong and worked in an office in Melbourne, he/she could drive to Melbourne and back on one charge, but if they wanted to be sure, they could plug the car into a 10amp power point and the vehicle would be all set for the journey back to Geelong when the driver had finished work! Then on ariving home for the night, they would plug their car into a 10amp power point in their driveway and the car would be ready to go early next morning!

    Why don't I build such a vehicle for myself? Well at my age, 66 retired from the workforce and just getting over a heart attack that “almost” ended all my driving days...I think I'm a little too long in the tooth to get the value out of such a vehicle...I could never recoup my investment!
    On the other hand, if I were a younger bloke, I would most definitely convert a suitable car to an electric car, that way I could end a lot of the rip-off of fuel and government taxes...which our polies call levies! I would not be forking out $96 for 53.96 Litres of diesel! That's $1.779 cents per litre! And remember, 38c/ltr goes to our benevolent governments on taxes...sorry mates, Levies!

    Lucky for me I don't need to drive long distance any more and I don't use my Disco every day, so I only fuel-up about once every three weeks and sometimes once per month, like 75% or more of all drivers, most of my driving is well under 100KM per day and is local driving! Unlike when I was trucking interstate! What our bright pollies seem to forget is that all our food and other esentials for daily living are delivered by diesel driven trucks! Keeping the cost and the tax...sorry, levy, high on fuel adds to the cost of "everything" and that adds even more to the governments tax grab!

    I suspect it won't be long now before we hear that our pollies are doing it tough and have plans to give themselves a 20,000 per year pay rise, because the country can afford it with all the revenu they're grabing from us!...Their employers! It always amazes me that it cost pollies so much more than the rest of us to get by! How come

    To wrap it up, a replacement for our oil based driven vehicles will come and I firmly believe it will be developed by Joe Citizen...Not some Multinational gazillion dollar company! But while I'm waiting...I would not mind having that EV from Melton.

    Cheers mates,

    Bill
    Last edited by kando; 14th June 2008 at 11:14 AM.
    Who says you can't teach old dogs new tricks?
    This old dog has been learning new tricks for years and...
    I hope I can continue to do so!:cool:

  7. #27
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    Re: Petrol is just going to cost a lot. I don't get the uproar.

    Rodeonick & Bill,

    Why a Lexus?, I travel very high mileages, nearly always on sealed roads so I have no need for 4WD. I have found Lexus to be the best built, most comfortable, and totally reliable, luxury vehicle available on the Australian market. I looked at buying the new diesel XF Jaguar, but it's very hard to match Toyota's build quality. I used to be be a Mercedes fan, but Mercedes price v/s quality does not justify the extra outlay! I agree, the hybrid solution is useless on the open road, not cutting edge technology, and really only a token step in the right direction, but hey, Toyota deserves some credit for establishing alternate energy vehicles in the public consciousness and creating mass acceptance.

    Bill, you seem to have a phobia about large corporations. It's true that in the past most inventions originated with a heroic individual inventor. However, time has moved on, for good or bad, society has grown infinitely more complex. The reason large corporations dominate is not for the sinister motives you attribute, but because they can harness thousands of different resources,( and human experts) that a modern invention needs to satisfy the complex society of the 21st century.

    Don't believe me? Look at the example that you proudly put forward, your "inventor' did not really 'invent' anything, he (without permission) pinched Diahatsu's technology, bought an electric motor from a disposed multinational, a battery system, (corporation) wiring (corporation) instruments (corporation) etc etc.. you see he didn't really 'invent' anything, every component was already a developed proprietary item.

    I think you missed the point of what I was saying, yes, a hobbyist can build an electric car, but not one that the public at large would purchase. It may seem strange to you, but your fellow human is a contrary critter!! Just witness the vast number of SUV's picking up the kids from at school day any you will get the idea! Do you really think all those mother's live in the outback? The motoring press and TV shows such as Top Gear are only popular when featuring fast, exotic, sporting vehicles, not clever or fuel efficient auto's!

    But as far as building your own electric cars? great fun! great hobby! great passion! As an industrial business? Leave that to industrialists. Do you really think that a couple of backyard tinkerers have superior resources than the hundreds of thousands of engineers, scientists, administrators, etc employed in the auto industry?

    Just imagine the complications involved if your Diahatsu driver was involved in a fatal road accident!! I know you believe his vehicles are safe, but let's just suppose his welding was faulty, the wrong bolts used, the person who drove the care failed to secure the batteries exactly right, or the altered weight and ADR specifications, were held to be contributing factors? lawyer talk? you bet!! But all factors auto makers must consider! You complain about governments and politicians, but government regulations exist to protect all road users, not just hobbyists. Would your Diahatsu man have the resources to meet such an enormous claim? forget insurance, they would run away a hundred times faster than an electric car? and the poor victims? could he ever compensate them???
    Now I'm not saying that the major automakers and their insurer's have always behaved honorably, but at least they are brought to account, (albeit with some difficultly), and found liable, possess the resources to effect restitution.

    It's just a fact of life that many excellent inventions never get produced because not enough people will actually buy them. Just having a good idea that appeal to you, is not enough. To become economic, a product must find a market, either a mass market for a cheap product or a specialist market for the limited number who can afford to indulge.

    I have a large file of over 106 fuel additive scams, all of which promise to possess miracle technology oil companies don't want you to know about!! Sadly, each of these products are of little or no value. But each product, no matter how blatantly fraudulent, has it's own little cult of sincere believers!

    Future transport needs will not be met by hobbyist tinkerers, but by the large automakers utilizing the developments in battery technology to produce safe electric cars, that people will actually purchase.

    I see future of bio-diesel as an oil replacement for those vehicles which can not be easily electrified, or operate in ares of sparse electrification. I am involved in developing a bio-diesel feedstock as a replacement for maritime fuels. I also believe bio-diesel will be an important component in sustainable power production for a range of specialist locations in conjunction with other sustainable energy solutions .


    Cheers.

  8. #28
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    Re: Petrol is just going to cost a lot. I don't get the uproar.

    Xavier it seems to me you're here to harass people who actually have idea's and are not some programmed corporate or bureaucratic clone, who toes the ideological corporate political line.

    I see future of bio-diesel as an oil replacement for those vehicles which can not be easily electrified, or operate in ares of sparse electrification. I am involved in developing a bio-diesel feedstock as a replacement for maritime fuels. I also believe bio-diesel will be an important component in sustainable power production for a range of specialist locations in conjunction with other sustainable energy solutions .
    I've been running my 15.5m motorsailer with a 671GM in it on BD for the last couple of years, I've even run it on SVO to see if it developed any problems and found none. Bunker oil for larger ships, requires heating just like SVO before use, Id be interested to know what would be the difference, between BD for the road and yours for marine use.

    You really don't seem to have any experience in the real world of creative invention. My own personal experience with alternative transport energy makes all you're statements look insipid. Back in the late 60's, I had the privilege to know Ted Ptritchard who built the Pritchard steam powered falcon. http://www.slv.vic.gov.au/hwtports/0...hp002608.shtml

    I travelled in the car from Caulfield in Melbourne, to lakes entrance and back at 80-90 miles an hour and it used just over a pint of kerosene. When they announced this very cheap safe and efficient form or propulsion and it appeared in Post magazine. In the late seventies near Eden NSW, I met a bloke and watched a V8 engine running a generator on hydrogen produced from water for days, sadly when he tried to patent it, his patent application disappeared and he was found dead, all his plans and the engine disappeared. The official verdict, was suicide by overdose, yet he didn't even take aspirin.

    Then in the 80's, I had the pleasure of being in a car which travelled from Taralgon to Bega NSW which ran on electricity using a bank of standard car batteries. We stopped at Canne river over night and recharged the batteries, the bloke who built it, an untrained electrical hobbiest, could make anything with electricity work and he used alternators as part of a regenerative braking system. He had these 4 little propeller drive chargers which trickled the batteries from the wind created as we travelled along, so extending the range. The car is still in the Bega valley somewhere and I believe still goes. A friend down here has designed plans for an electric car which will have a very long range, and be much safer than any of the mass produced polluting and expensive mobile coffins currently being offered to the public by the failing corporate world. Because of his innovative approach to electronics and my sometimes fanciful ideas, which he has now incorporated into the design and except for the body, uses off the shelf available racing chassis, drive steering and regenerative braking systems. A racing chassis, is very light and designed to keep the occupant safe, not crushed to death as with all current modern cars, which are far from safe. I'm helping with the construction and we will first power it with a motorcycle engine and rear drive train until we have worked out the re-charge potential of the system on the road. You only have to be able to trickle charge your batteries to extend range, not fully recharge them on the road.

    This corporate elitist line of knocking innovation is wearing thin, always putting down those who clearly have more intelligence than programmed academic and elitist clones. Corporations survive on the stolen ideas and resources of creative individuals, you can see the state of the corporate, bureaucratic and political intelligence, with the directions they are currently taking the world. Talk about primitive understanding and past their use by date approaches, corporations, supporters and their leaders are a pox on the world. The quicker the world can be rid of this insane globalisation and monopolisation, the quicker some form of sanity will start to determine our future, instead of the insanity of the corporate, market controlled driven world and its supporters. Every direction the corporate world, its enslaved political and bureaucratic clones is heading, is total disaster ahead for us all, so why would anyone listen to those who are clearly incapable of rational thinking. The problem with these people is they are ideologically profit, power and ego driven, no sense, just primitive programming for a brain. The only reason we don't have vehicles that cost almost nothing to run, is because it would take away the power and control of the corporate elitists, not improve things.

    This linked article shows others may have achieved the same outcome my friend did back in the 80's with his V8 , bet the conglomerate corporate world gets rid of them pretty quickly.

    'Breakthrough car runs on water' | The Courier-Mail

    Genepax shows off water-powered fuel cell vehicle - Engadget
    Last edited by Alga; 14th June 2008 at 01:18 PM.

  9. #29
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    Re: Petrol is just going to cost a lot. I don't get the uproar.

    Alga, I dont agree with all your post, but thinking about what the self funded Wright brothers achieved, I think inovation can come from anywhere - even in todays world.

    Speaking about capitalists, todays Australian Financial Review has a few storys on electric vehicles: "Which Car" by Brian Toohey kicks it off.

    Also an interesting article on global warming money making "The Capitalist Making a Very Good Fortune" covers the company Climate Change Capital.

  10. #30
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    Re: Petrol is just going to cost a lot. I don't get the uproar.

    Quote Originally Posted by xavier View Post
    Rodeonick & Bill,

    Why a Lexus?, I travel very high mileages, nearly always on sealed roads so I have no need for 4WD. I have found Lexus to be the best built, most comfortable, and totally reliable, luxury vehicle available on the Australian market. I looked at buying the new diesel XF Jaguar, but it's very hard to match Toyota's build quality. I used to be be a Mercedes fan, but Mercedes price v/s quality does not justify the extra outlay! I agree, the hybrid solution is useless on the open road, not cutting edge technology, and really only a token step in the right direction, but hey, Toyota deserves some credit for establishing alternate energy vehicles in the public consciousness and creating mass acceptance.

    Bill, you seem to have a phobia about large corporations. It's true that in the past most inventions originated with a heroic individual inventor. However, time has moved on, for good or bad, society has grown infinitely more complex. The reason large corporations dominate is not for the sinister motives you attribute, but because they can harness thousands of different resources,( and human experts) that a modern invention needs to satisfy the complex society of the 21st century.

    Don't believe me? Look at the example that you proudly put forward, your "inventor' did not really 'invent' anything, he (without permission) pinched Diahatsu's technology, bought an electric motor from a disposed multinational, a battery system, (corporation) wiring (corporation) instruments (corporation) etc etc.. you see he didn't really 'invent' anything, every component was already a developed proprietary item.

    I think you missed the point of what I was saying, yes, a hobbyist can build an electric car, but not one that the public at large would purchase. It may seem strange to you, but your fellow human is a contrary critter!! Just witness the vast number of SUV's picking up the kids from at school day any you will get the idea! Do you really think all those mother's live in the outback? The motoring press and TV shows such as Top Gear are only popular when featuring fast, exotic, sporting vehicles, not clever or fuel efficient auto's!

    But as far as building your own electric cars? great fun! great hobby! great passion! As an industrial business? Leave that to industrialists. Do you really think that a couple of backyard tinkerers have superior resources than the hundreds of thousands of engineers, scientists, administrators, etc employed in the auto industry?

    Just imagine the complications involved if your Diahatsu driver was involved in a fatal road accident!! I know you believe his vehicles are safe, but let's just suppose his welding was faulty, the wrong bolts used, the person who drove the care failed to secure the batteries exactly right, or the altered weight and ADR specifications, were held to be contributing factors? lawyer talk? you bet!! But all factors auto makers must consider! You complain about governments and politicians, but government regulations exist to protect all road users, not just hobbyists. Would your Diahatsu man have the resources to meet such an enormous claim? forget insurance, they would run away a hundred times faster than an electric car? and the poor victims? could he ever compensate them???
    Now I'm not saying that the major automakers and their insurer's have always behaved honorably, but at least they are brought to account, (albeit with some difficultly), and found liable, possess the resources to effect restitution.

    It's just a fact of life that many excellent inventions never get produced because not enough people will actually buy them. Just having a good idea that appeal to you, is not enough. To become economic, a product must find a market, either a mass market for a cheap product or a specialist market for the limited number who can afford to indulge.

    I have a large file of over 106 fuel additive scams, all of which promise to possess miracle technology oil companies don't want you to know about!! Sadly, each of these products are of little or no value. But each product, no matter how blatantly fraudulent, has it's own little cult of sincere believers!

    Future transport needs will not be met by hobbyist tinkerers, but by the large automakers utilizing the developments in battery technology to produce safe electric cars, that people will actually purchase.

    I see future of bio-diesel as an oil replacement for those vehicles which can not be easily electrified, or operate in ares of sparse electrification. I am involved in developing a bio-diesel feedstock as a replacement for maritime fuels. I also believe bio-diesel will be an important component in sustainable power production for a range of specialist locations in conjunction with other sustainable energy solutions .

    Cheers.
    G'day Xavier, I'm a Jaguar man myself from way back but rightly or wrongly I would not touch a newer Jag...Say from 98 and after! You driving a Lexus, a nice car by all accounts and...I believe we still live in an almost free society so it's your choice.

    As for large corporations, no! I don't believe them to be in the least benevolent or honest!, All to often we read or hear of some big bank, car manufacturer or some big company/organisation screwing things up for some poor sod and it is never the fault of the organisation involved! It is always the battlers fault! Big business will tell you they "never" make mistakes! Bloody bull-dust!
    Even when one has receipts for paid bills, if big business has screwed-up with their records, they will go after the battlet and it don't matter a dam if one has stamped "PAID" receipts or not! From banks to telecomunacation to car companies! How many times have we seen car manufacturer have sold a lemmon then wash their hands of everything! Too often...From cars to prime movers! Car/truck manufacturer are happy to build and sell them but when a vehicle turns out to be a lemon...they don't want to know! They are all out to screw as much as they can get away with out of their clients and...they get away with it simply through lack of choice and governments working hand in hand with the top-end of town! That goes for services such as gas, electricity, water and sewerage too! All services are charged for weather we use them or not! All you need do to be clobbered with several service charges is to own a block of land! And while we'er at it...I also believe services such as water, gas, power and sewerage should be kept in our hands, not sold off to big business!


    I consider myself a capitalist/socialist...if there is such a beastie and I have no objections to big business, provided they do the right thing! But all to often they are lacking in that department! Believe it or not but a very close (like real close) family member built a successful multinational company from the ground up! In the process he became very rich but he also became a ruthless, tough, cruel bastard! Me! Thankfully I don't need or want a dollar that badly! But every man to his own!

    As for the vast number of SUV's driven by Mums picking up the kids from school every week-day! They have been conned by the false advertising that state SUV's and large 4x4 are much safer! I for one know that a 4x4 is not as safe to drive as a standard car! 4x4's are much more dangerous to drive! I drove my first 4x4's as a lad in the military in Germany and we were trained to handle 4x4's of all sizes, not just small vehicles, but there are not too many other 4x4 drivers who have received "any" form of 4x4 driving instructions! Still, just like you and your Lexus...we still have the freedom to drive what we like but...I bet 99.7% of those Mums don't need the LC's or NP's! They could do what they need to do by using a car like that electric Daihatsu Charade from Melton!

    And by the way Xavier, every electric car registered and permitted on Australian roads "must" meet very strict standards from the minstery of transport! The cars are by no-means unsafe welded-up junk buckets!

    As for BioDiesel, been down that track...and Ethanol too! Since big business got involved in brewing BioDiesel Joe Common man can not get on to any waste vegie oils...big business has cornered the market on that too! And last time I filled-up with Bio' in NSW, it saved me a whopping great 1c per litre! Why bother!
    I have also looked at building a reflux still and destilling ethanol from waste from vineyards as fuel and for that I bought the plans for a Robert Warren's Still, I also bought a 1992 SAAB 900i, it's still sitting in my driveway and I drive it one day each week just for a change! I have the copper to build the still, which was not cheep, to build the 5ft reflux still, but then I found Australians are not permitted to distill Ethanol...for fuel or anything else!

    To end with, I too have tested many so called miracle fuel additive only to find they did little or nothing to help my fuel bill so I don't use, nor can I recommend even one of them! But I do know electric vehicles can be quite safe to use on our roads! There were many of them around when I was a lad, bakers vans, milkmens vans, trams and trolly busses, and I'm sure the EV's I read about are all genuine and safe to use on our roads...even though they were converted from petro cars to electric cars by individuals!

    Cheers mate,

    Bill
    Who says you can't teach old dogs new tricks?
    This old dog has been learning new tricks for years and...
    I hope I can continue to do so!:cool:

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