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Thread: Petrol is just going to cost a lot. I don't get the uproar.

  1. #1
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    Petrol is just going to cost a lot. I don't get the uproar.

    I understand that people are hurting because of petrol prices. What I don't get is why the Federal Government is being hauled over the coals about it. Petrol is going to get more and more expensive not because of government policy but because we're running out of the stuff, and that's what happens when demand begins to outstrip supply. The price goes up.

    We *need* to bear this pain now, don't we? And to learn to develop other alternative fuels? Isn't that the idea about market pressures?

    /vent. I'd be interested to hear what others think.

  2. #2
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    Angry Re: Petrol is just going to cost a lot. I don't get the uproar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janiebabes View Post
    I understand that people are hurting because of petrol prices. What I don't get is why the Federal Government is being hauled over the coals about it. Petrol is going to get more and more expensive not because of government policy but because we're running out of the stuff, and that's what happens when demand begins to outstrip supply. The price goes up.

    We *need* to bear this pain now, don't we? And to learn to develop other alternative fuels? Isn't that the idea about market pressures?

    /vent. I'd be interested to hear what others think.
    I guess motorist are fed-up with the taxes placed on fuel by the federal and state government, I'm not sure just how much the tax is but I believe it's around 40% and that's just being too bloody greedy!
    I believe petrol in Burma, a dictotorship, is around $1.40 per GALLON! I've been told that petrol in oil producing states of the middle east cost 18 cents per letre and as far as I know...resedents of Islamic countries and states do not have to pay taxes...collecting taxes from the people is against Islamanic law!
    When I lived and worked in the Persan Gulf I never seen anyone going hungary, nor did any shop keeper or street trader ever try to screw me out of a dollar. Hospitals and schools were free! Perhaps our pollies should ask those pollies in Islamice countries how they do it while collecting no taxes!
    I don't know why we, Australian pensioners and other low paid workers are exspected run our vehicles, feed ourselves and live on a couple of hundred dollars per week when our pollies, state and federal, tell us they can't live on the sallery "we" pay them! Then they increse their own paychecks by thousands! Plus they don't pay a cent for their state provided cars and the fuel for those cars is also free!
    Australia is an oil producing nation! We also have so much natural gass that we're just about paying the Japanees and Chineese to take millions upon millions of GALLONS off our hands!
    We could convert "all" our vehicles to run on natural gas, the government could quite easly fund that, and we could buy natural gas for 10 cents per letre and end importing oil from other countries but don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen!
    Aussie may enter politics as working class people but they all seem to retire from politics as millionairs!

    Now I'll put my soapbox away and go to bed!

    Bill
    Last edited by kando; 30th May 2008 at 04:43 AM.
    Who says you can't teach old dogs new tricks?
    This old dog has been learning new tricks for years and...
    I hope I can continue to do so!:cool:

  3. #3
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    Re: Petrol is just going to cost a lot. I don't get the uproar.

    You can't be serious Kando surely! We have one of the lowest fuel prices in the OECD, with taxes of 38c/litre (+GST). In the UK (where I'm from originally) duty + VAT is 69p/litre (AU$1.43 ).

    Also, in case it hadn't escaped your notice the reason the middle eastern countries have all those wonderful benefits you mention is because that's where all the oil is! They are massive exporters, whereas Australia is a net importer (we only produce around 40-50% of our oil IIRC, and declining).

    As for Burma, I'm not sure if subsidised fuel is really worth it when you consider all their human rights violations and complete lack of care for their people (e.g. cyclone Nargis)!

    I really hope you were just tired and pissed off when you wrote that post (it was 3am after all!), as it comes across as a bit of a dummy spit. We have it very good in this country compared to just about everyone else. And you call us poms whingers!

    I agree with Janiebabes, in that the fuel prices are not the government's fault, it's down to global oil prices (supply and demand). I think the government is completely wasting it's time being distracted by this fuel watch scheme and talk about reducing the excise. We should be using these high prices to look at ways of using less oil, as this is the shape of things to come.

    As for individuals, if your fuel is getting too expensive then you should start looking at your lifestyle. Drive less, walk/cycle/take public transport more, get a more efficient car etc. Anyone who throws their hands up and says things like: "I can't afford to; there's no decent public transport where I live; we can't do without our second car; I need the extra space/convenience of a large car" etc. is going to be in real trouble when petrol hits $3, $6, $8 or more.

    I'm one of the lucky ones, as I run my car on veggie oil. However I'm under no illusions even that's going to get tough when everybody wants to do it. Even 2 or 3 other people doing it in my entire suburb will create supply problems. I'm also on the verge of selling our second car, and when I was looking at buying a house 3 years ago two of the things I was looking at was proximity to a railway station, and walking distance to the shops. Coming from living in London it seemed crazy not to.

    I hope I'm not sounding like a doomer, but I have no sympathy for people who don't think for themselves and think the government should do everything for them. And anyone who thinks we are going to see sub $1 petrol again needs to wake up and smell the coffee.
    Sean

  4. #4
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    Re: Petrol is just going to cost a lot. I don't get the uproar.

    sean i think your missing one vital link. NOT EVERYONE LIVES IN A CITY.
    food prices are direstly linked to diesel prices, country people are always being fogotten about: who grows the food, who raises the animals, who pays more for everything the answer country folk of course. If i were PM i would have major fuel tax cuts for rural and remote communities. City folk simply have it too easy in my opinion.

    I agree that petrol will keep going up and that the govt aren't responsible for that. we do need to look at other avenues. but centralisation will not be sustainable.

    end of my rant
    Cheers
    Nick.
    Harold 2002 Toyota Landcruiser 105 series. 4.2lt turbo glide turbo, Too lazy to make bio nowdays times money. 3'' lift.

    Roidio 2001 Holden Rodeo 4x4 2.8L TD. 2.5" exhaust sytem, H/E shower system. 4" Lift, Airbags, And lots of fruit, B100 for 55,000 . SOLD

    Elsa 1983 Mercedes-Benz W123 300D. Still The Fastest Merc in Oz, Self built and Female proofed. COUSINS NOW

  5. #5
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    Re: Petrol is just going to cost a lot. I don't get the uproar.

    Well folks check out this link.

    Eventhough fuel prices are high and ARE going to go way higher we are far from being the worst off.

    Also look at the tax component of petrol and diesel.

    How lucky are you that you weren't born in Turkey or Switzerland.

  6. #6
    Marc1 Guest

    Re: Petrol is just going to cost a lot. I don't get the uproar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janiebabes View Post
    Petrol is going to get more and more expensive not because of government policy but because we're running out of the stuff, and that's what happens when demand begins to outstrip supply. The price goes up.
    When I agree that new sources of energy must be developed fast and must be placed in the public domain to avoid patents being bought and buried, your above statement is dubious at best.

    Market forces determine prices in a lot of different ways. One is offer and demand. Now world demand for oil, besides the media spin has not changed much, nor has production, so if offer and demand were the only forces price of oil would be at what it should, around 40 to 50.
    The only reason it is as high as more than twice the level it should, is because of speculation from investment funds and oil cartels, both interested of the bubble to keep on inflating. Of course the tree huggers are also having a field day on this fringe benefit of we-are-running-out-because-of-your-4wd...

    As far as your assertion that it is not the fault of the government, I find it hard to believe you actually say this. Government live off taxes from fuel, tobacco, alcohol, gambling, and their crocodile tears at watching people suffer inflation are ludicrous.
    Look at the graph posted above. prices of fuel are almost identical in every country in the world, if it was not for the different amount of tax different governemts get away with charging their citizen.
    Oh yes...it is all for a good cause.... they keep prices up so that we use less and so save the planet...yes, I had forgotten that spin for a minute.

    Natural gas. We have aboundance of it yet we can't use it. Oh yes we have a grant to convert to LPG...once we are all in it, the price of LPG will get hit by a 200% to fund research in the green monkey that is getting an itchy bum.
    I think that LPG grants should be income tested and given only to "working families" that earn under $30,000. Everyone else is a bastard.

  7. #7
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    Re: Petrol is just going to cost a lot. I don't get the uproar.

    Supply is what also drives the price of oil. The bloke with the 'hole in the ground' wants a bit extra income this week so he goes out and closes the gate valve off another 1/2 turn. Less supply so those wanting it will pay a bit more for it.

    And if you don't think that's true here is a little presentation that might change your mind. It's a PPS file and about 1.7 meg so be paitent.

    A frine of mine was over there a year ago and then there was over 200 cranes working on new big buildings. They work 24 hours a day under flood lights at night.

    I sure makes one wonder if Australia is really "The Lucky Country"

  8. #8
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    Re: Petrol is just going to cost a lot. I don't get the uproar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qwarla View Post
    Supply is what also drives the price of oil. The bloke with the 'hole in the ground' wants a bit extra income this week so he goes out and closes the gate valve off another 1/2 turn. Less supply so those wanting it will pay a bit more for it.
    Smart move for an oil company. Increase profits, make your product last longer, thereby making more money, just so long as you dont raise it to the point where peole stop using it. (consumption is still going up in Australia acording to the CEO of caltex)

    I have heard from a guy who works on oil rigs the oil shortage in the 70's was excatly the anticlockwise tap turning.
    cheers<BR>Chris.<BR>1990 landcruiser 80, 1HD-T two tank, copper pipe HE+ 20 plate FPHE, toyota solenoids and filters. 1978 300D, elsbett one tank system.<BR>

  9. #9
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    Question Re: Petrol is just going to cost a lot. I don't get the uproar.

    G'day mates,

    Well I do seem to have put the cat among the pigeons with my winge about fuel tax but lets face it, our pollies "never" seem to do anything but pay lip service plus give themselves large pay rises when they feel like it! Our pollies are the only people in Australia who “must” be held accountable by us for their actions or...lack thereof! How many people would forget the “honorable” Bob Hawk (I think not) while on walkabout was asked a simple question by an aged pensioner and Bob Hawks response was...Sod-off you silly old bugger!
    In my humble opinion, that response by our then PM of the day, is true to what our pollies think of us common people...once they get themselves elected!
    And no I'm not kidding! Sure I'm ticked-off with things but I'm a bloody Aussie and have the right to rock the boat when I feel our pollies are not doing enough for the country and/or the people!

    We don't live in the UK, Switzerland or any of the Persian Gulf States! Unlike those countries we do have our own oil, perhaps not as much as Dubai or Iraq but we have oil! Take a look out in the Bass Straights and see just how many oil wells we have capped! But more to the point, we have so much natural gas that our government seem to be paying China and other countries to take it off our hands ...Just like they paid $15 per head I believe it was, to take a ship load of sheep (mutton) of their hands once the original country the sheep were bound for rejected them! Why did the government not order that ship...with the sheep still on board, back to Australia then distribute the sheep to those who need them here in Australia! There are a lot of folk here in Auss that would not say no to a feed of mutton at the right price!

    Unlike the UK, Switzerland, Ireland and most other countries in Europe or Asia, Australia has so much natural resources we can be classed as one of the wealthiest countries on earth! But we must use our resources wisely and don't fritter them away in trying to impress others! Remember...charity begins at home! Or so it should!

    We also have sunshine just about all day long...Even in Geelong most days, so "every" detached home in Australia "should" have it's own solar hot water system and it's own power generating plant with an inverter that would send any and all electricity not used by the home into the grid! That way every home would not have an electric bill to pay but could generate some cash from selling electricity to the grid and...Don't be fooled by people/pollies who say it would cost to much! That's Bull Dust! The cost for the equipment to do this has dropped dramatical over the past ten years!

    Now what else are the pollies doing wrong...Oh yea!
    We have two electric cars sat in a bonded warehouse in Melbourne...been there for about five years! These cars can be plugged in and charged-up from any 10amp plug! They cost a couple of dollars per day to run and the importer has orders for twenty or so...as soon as they're released. I believe the cars sell for around $14,000 each!
    Why have the government not released those cars? Because they have no classification for them in Australia! Again...Bull Dust!
    The Brits also had no classification for those cars in the UK when they were first imported there, so the British pollies created a classification for them...in 7 days! But the Aussie pollies can't do likewise in 5 years! Come On! Who's Kidding Who!

    Then there are so many other brain dead ideas that our pollies come up with...like diverting water from up country from our farming areas to the cities...the brain dead polly who thought up that one should be taken out and shot! My little dog is smarter than that! Don't the pollies know we need “more” water in our farming areas...not less!

    Personally for myself, I don't care if the cost of fuel goes to $5 per litre, I will still keep my Disco, you see I have been on a government carers pension for seven years caring for my dear wife, I could be on the age pension as I'm past 65...a government spokes person told me I should change from the carers pension to the age pension, I pointed out that I would still be caring for my dear wife...The spokesperson said that was okay, I asked what would happen to the few perks I got as a carer, she said I would loose those but I wouldn't loose much by changing to the age pension...I told her to get lost and stayed on the carers pension! Just another little sample of government trying to screw me out of a dollar any way they can!

    During my lifetime I worked all over the world and lived in most countries and before becoming my wifes carer I was self employed and had a couple of small business. I sold my trucking company, a 40ft catamaran yacht, 40 acres of land in Queensland, just outside Childers with a permanent spring fed dam, a personalized printing business with all equipment and stock and a couple of cars and with the cash I paid off all my debts. We have always lived well within our means and...luckily for us...I don't waste my money on gambling, pokies, smoking, drugs or other what I consider to be crap! We can afford, within reason, to do what we want for ourselves, our children and grandchildren, our youngest daughter for some strange reason choses to reside in the UK with her husband and little daughter! But that's her choice.

    We are by no means wealthy but we do okay, we have all that we need or want, all our bills are paid on time, no-one knocks on our door looking for unpaid bills, we eat very well and we help our kids when they need a helping hand! But! I insist, just like any other true Aussie, I have the right to knock our government when I feel they are not doing the right thing!
    Remember Eureka!

    Now I'll put the soapbox away as I have to go over the market shopping.

    Cheers mates

    Bill
    Who says you can't teach old dogs new tricks?
    This old dog has been learning new tricks for years and...
    I hope I can continue to do so!:cool:

  10. #10
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    Re: Petrol is just going to cost a lot. I don't get the uproar.

    I don't get it either. Why does the government trot out schemes to lower costs when it is a supply and demand problem. They could help themselves by not doing it. We all used too much oil and now we are paying big time and long before it runs out completely it will be too expensive to use in a personal transporter. Of course the rules wont apply to the military and leaders.

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