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Thread: SVO upflow design with photos!

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Mount Gambier
    Posts
    950

    Re: Critique my upflow design

    I use about 8 green bags in an old oil heater tank cut in half (and plumbed together). Even clogged with fats the filters seem to pass a lot of oil, just slowly. I change one or 2 bags at a time, pour the cleaner oil through them, and the fats I pour into the older bags to slowly filter through.
    cheers<BR>Chris.<BR>1990 landcruiser 80, 1HD-T two tank, copper pipe HE+ 20 plate FPHE, toyota solenoids and filters. 1978 300D, elsbett one tank system.<BR>

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    797

    Re: Critique my upflow design

    I've been bored at work recently so I updated my diagram,taking into account some of the suggestions people have made and some ideas of my own:
    Sean

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Lake Macquarie (just south of Newcastle) NSW
    Posts
    1,363

    Re: Critique my upflow design

    Fantastic!
    Can you qoute on building one for me?

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    South Coast, NSW
    Posts
    870

    Re: Critique my upflow design

    baffleplate should be higher up.

    those drill pumps are deadset the best ever BUT only those orange ones ( all others are too slow)
    I have two of them to move bio and wvo around the place.
    I know oily has pumped over 3000 litres of bio with his one and its still goin strong.
    They might be too quick for your needs though. (remember centrifugal pumps slow on oil BUT positive displacement types don't) Mine does over 40 litres a minute on cold WVO.
    i would go for a bilge pump or the caravan type 10-17 litres/min type with a good check valve.

    I also think your top vent valve is un nessary.

    Goodluck sean

    PS: Go see David then you will know what your new setup will look like

    Cheers Nick.
    Cheers
    Nick.
    Harold 2002 Toyota Landcruiser 105 series. 4.2lt turbo glide turbo, Too lazy to make bio nowdays times money. 3'' lift.

    Roidio 2001 Holden Rodeo 4x4 2.8L TD. 2.5" exhaust sytem, H/E shower system. 4" Lift, Airbags, And lots of fruit, B100 for 55,000 . SOLD

    Elsa 1983 Mercedes-Benz W123 300D. Still The Fastest Merc in Oz, Self built and Female proofed. COUSINS NOW

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    1,117

    Re: Critique my upflow design

    Looks good however it is missing 2 features which make my upflow system work well. 1. Cone bottom vessels with drain cocks at the bottom. (gets all the water right to the bottom and makes it a cinch to drain it out).
    2. Ability to add oil very slowly by gravity, I'm talking 4hrs for 20 litres. (This means the settled oil is not stirred up as it moves through the 4 drums).
    Johnnojack
    4WD Isuzu Jackaroo 3.1 170,000km on WVO,(2017) 2 tank home built system 6 solenoids. Mk. 9 version. Improvements under investigation

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    1,117

    Re: Critique my upflow design

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Jones View Post
    Unless You are a sheet metal fabricator, the trouble and expense of a cone bottom is overkill for an upflow tank. Most of the water will be dissolved into and will drop down with the fats. Normally there is very little free water and unless the tank is also heated, it is hard if not impractical, to get the dissolved water to settle out in the period of time this oil would have in its turnover rate.
    Draining slowly from a flat bottom tank will be perfectly adequate and it is possible a layer of fat on the bottom of the tank could also assist in filtering the incoming oil. As the good oil is at the top of the tank, what is on the bottom is pretty irrelevant. A cone bottom is nice to have if you can easily do one up yourself but at the end of the day, I don't believe it makes much difference.
    Gravity feed is also nice but may well be impractical. The incoming oil would have to be above the height of 2 drums which may well make it above the ceiling height of an attached garage. If the height is not a problem, then the oil has to be pumped up there.
    With the height of 2 44's, the oil could be fed at a rate of 3-4L min from the side of the drum so it is not lifting the settled layer to the top of the drum, without causing too much disturbance.
    Having the oil that is being fed into the settling tank at the same temp as the tank contents or lower also eliminates the possibility of the new oil rising to the top such as in a thermo siphon action.
    Dave I am not a sheetmetal fabricator and made my cones with an angle grinder,tinsnips, a hammer and piece of angle iron. I welded them on the drums with a gasless mig welder.
    I dont think it is overkill at all, in fact I will eventually remove the 2 flat bottom drums in the system and weld cones on them as well. The water and sludge which gathers on the bottom of a flat based drum is impossible to drain out properly and eventually requires the drum to be emptied completely and cleaned out. If not removed it eventually causes contamination of the good oil.
    As for gravity feed being above the roof, Here is a link to an early picture of my system while still under construction and as you can see the height to lift in the oil is not excessive.
    http://www.biofuelsforum.com/svo_use..._system-2.html
    Johnnojack
    4WD Isuzu Jackaroo 3.1 170,000km on WVO,(2017) 2 tank home built system 6 solenoids. Mk. 9 version. Improvements under investigation

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    797

    Re: Critique my upflow design

    Quote Originally Posted by RODEONICK View Post
    baffleplate should be higher up.

    those drill pumps are deadset the best ever BUT only those orange ones ( all others are too slow)
    I have two of them to move bio and wvo around the place.
    I know oily has pumped over 3000 litres of bio with his one and its still goin strong.
    They might be too quick for your needs though. (remember centrifugal pumps slow on oil BUT positive displacement types don't) Mine does over 40 litres a minute on cold WVO.
    i would go for a bilge pump or the caravan type 10-17 litres/min type with a good check valve.

    I also think your top vent valve is un nessary.

    Goodluck sean

    PS: Go see David then you will know what your new setup will look like

    Cheers Nick.
    I might ditch the baffle plate as I'm not sure it's necessary and it may block up or something. Once I've welded the 2 barrels together there won't be a way to remove it.

    As for the drill pump, won't it work with a battery drill on slow? Since it's a displacement pump shouldn't it work at any speed? And when you say the orange ones I'm assuming you mean like this one?

    I've seen David's setup, but unfortunately I don't have space for 2 x 1000L IBCs! It was actually him that suggested using 2 drums welded together.
    Sean

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    797

    Re: Critique my upflow design

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Jones View Post
    Holding tank is unnecessary. Oil will be clean and fat free from upflow output and given sufficient time and holding tank should be the filtering tank. In the unlikely event bag filtering ever becomes unnecessary, do it separately rather than corrupt the design of the settling system.
    That's what I'm hoping. That's the whole point of using the upflow system - to reduce the amount of filtering necessary. So I may not use it, but I can put a small container in there with or without a filter if necessary, without affecting the design.

    In diagram shown, dirt and bugs could (Would) be introduced to the oil AFTER the filtering stage which would contaminate it again. This is counter productive and why the filtering and drying should be in the one tank or at very least the filtering be done last.
    I need the drying tank to be open while drying to aid evaporation, but if I have a lid that should protect the oil after drying is complete. Also the 1u cartridge filter will be filtering continuously while drying and when pumping out to the car.

    I'll have a look at the configuration based on what you said, but I want to avoid too many stages due to space constraints. Maybe I can consolidate filtering/drying into 1 tank and use the last tank just for storage. Thanks for the help.
    Sean

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    797

    Re: Critique my upflow design

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnojack View Post
    Looks good however it is missing 2 features which make my upflow system work well. 1. Cone bottom vessels with drain cocks at the bottom. (gets all the water right to the bottom and makes it a cinch to drain it out).
    2. Ability to add oil very slowly by gravity, I'm talking 4hrs for 20 litres. (This means the settled oil is not stirred up as it moves through the 4 drums).
    Cone bottom tanks would be nice, but I can't do the fabrication myself and don't think they are really necessary. What I've done before is push out the bottom of the drum slightly at the 3/4" fitting, which makes it the lowest point.

    I would have liked to gravity feed the upflow tank, and I saw your design Johnnojack but decided to go with 2 welded drums to save space.
    Last edited by pangit; 18th August 2008 at 02:44 PM.
    Sean

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    445

    Re: Critique my upflow design

    Hi pangit,

    when I set up my system I did not want to use any electricity if I could avoid it.

    The gravity feed works well. The flow is slow and does not stir up the settled gunk in the bottom of the three upflow drums.

    The filter is in the last barrel/drum which takes quite some time to fill up with gunk even in winter.

    This is about the third setup that I've tried and thus far seems to work well in a small space. http://www.biofuelsforum.com/svo_use...er_system.html,

    God bless froggo.
    HJ45 Landcruiser Troopy
    Home made 2 tank system
    Blending in main diesel tank
    SVO/WVO Converted 18/01/08
    http://www.biofuelsforum.com/svo_users/3667-hj45_troopy_conversion.html

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