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Thread: The riotact

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2006

    The riotact

    Put an entry on the Riotact board yesterday inquiring why Biodiesel was not available in our national capital Canberra. Got a range of responses.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2005

    Re: The riotact

    I couldn't resist putting a plug in there for here, but I always think, if you are going to advertise, you should educate while doing it and actually provide some help rather than just spamming links, so I have written the following rant in there:

    Quote Originally Posted by riotact post
    I've seen a few comments in here re biodiesel only having "marginal" environmental gains and also getting a better return on investment with petroleum distillate than with biodiesel. I'd just like to debunk some of these.

    1. The complete life cycle of biodiesel production from the growing, to the harvesting, production, distribution and finally combustion in the engine (also called "field to wheel") is carbon neutral or carbon negative. This means that the amount of CO2 emitted by using biodiesel is less than or equal to the amount of carbon absorbed by the plants used to make it. Compared to petroleum products which simply release the carbon captured from the fossil age (carbon positive), this is a huge environmental benefit in terms of greenhouse.
    2. There are significant reductions in almost all emissions when running on biodiesel (even as a small blend with dino diesel). Smoke and particulates are significantly reduced. Biodiesel is an oxygenated fuel. Although it has marginally less energy content than petroleum distillate, it makes up for these with more efficient combustion, levelling at about 95% of the efficiency when combusted in an engine. This better, oxygenated combustion also means that the bits of soot and uncombusted fuel which normally come out of the exhaust as particulates/smoke are now burned in the chamber with the biodiesel. You will find that old smokers suddenly report much less of a cloud behind them when using biodiesel.
    3. Energy costs. The “cost” of refining a fuel can be measured in the amount of energy you have to put into it, as opposed to the amount you get out of it. This can be a simple equation and does not involve economic costs, which is usually the only thing that people look at. To refine petrol, or distillate from crude oil and then burn it in your engine (the field to wheel), the ratio is around 0.9 :1. I know that sounds hard to believe but it costs nearly a barrel of oil to find, extract, process etc another barrel of oil in terms of energy used. When it reaches your vehicle from the pump, you don’t really care, you just notice the power you get from it, not the power it cost to get it. The cost of ethanol is similar, as the energy put into the distillation required is quite high. For biodiesel the ratio is more like 1:3, or as high as 1:7 for biodiesel made from waste cooking oil. The reason for this is that biodiesel is made from a chemical reaction rather than distillation and it does not have to be drilled from deep in the ground.

    There is a lot of propaganda a misinformation in the public domain, as well as some “scientific” studies that have been commissioned by those who’s interests are not for alternative fuels which would disagree with some of the things that pro bio fuel people say. You have to make your own mind up.

    Re resources for learning how to make it, or for finding out where to buy it – is a forum specifically for Australia. Much discussion on the above topics happens in there.
    If anyone thinks I've talked complete crap re any of the above, please correct me, as if no one does I'll continue to spout it (and probably embellish it in my old age). I do appreciate corrections on the facts and figures I use as I am not an expert in this and I just repeat what I've heard (like "nitrile" rubber - thanks Tilly).
    Site Admin.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Sydney/Nimbin/Delhi-Planet earth

    Re: The riotact

    Well Done Cybor Legend Nerd,
    And we will get them convereted To.I think outthere in the mainstream there is not much Knowledge floating around regarding Bio Fuels,Peak Oil etc.It's a political manupulation straight out of books to prevent or call what you a general riot or civil disobedience .Mass intellegensia is always kept in the dark under the forms of governance present today.The whole machinery is dedicated to it.As a result you don't get the real changes on time every time in the so called controlled system of 'Ism.
    But it then falls in our responsibilty to do whatever is possible to resist that and educate our fellow humans.Making the dream of a world wide community a reality.Incidentally new imperialism or globalisation or what ever be the new political modus operandi ironically actually advocate that as it's main intention.But then we know what it actually does.So mate yes lets get on the job of more converts.So yes mate keep it up.
    Now with regards to the seals in the cars:
    Nitrile=perbunan ....I can give a whole rant about it and it's application.But bottom line is that this is the material of choice for all seals in the car industry today.It is not attacked by dino fuels in the short term but detoriates over time and is prone to UV degradation.That is why over a time all your seals harden over time and lose it's elasticity and eventually crack.This was a natural progession that happened in the Industry which initially used to used plain rubber.Nitrile was the next best alternative to extend life ...yes a design versus a cost compromise.
    Next Choice availble with car manufactures are Viton and Epdm.
    Viton is the most expensive but has a wide range of compatabilty when compared to Nitrile and Epdm.Normally not use cos of cost reason.It has excellent compatibility with Dino Fuels.But bad compatibilty with caustic which may be a problem in the case of BD if the Ph is high.
    Epdm is caustic friendly but may have swelling with Dino fuels.
    So in the above scenario Aflas does the whole job.But again expensive.But car manufacturers are and will slowly adopt that.
    Kalraz,chemraz (the cost a small fortune) and a heap of other material will do the job ...but cost factor.

    My recommendation to the car Industry would be Viton of 65 shore hardness which is engenieered compromise.
    Hope this helps.


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2005

    Re: The riotact

    I couldn't help myself either
    HDJ80 (aka Kiwipete)


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