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Thread: Loss of power

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    82

    Re: Loss of power

    Thanks for the tips. Sounds like I should have got to the regulating valve and also at the banjo outlet.

    However, before your replies I thought that this was all getting beyond me a little bit and also I have checked everything but the pump. Also, my appointment that I had to make 2+ weeks earlier with the diesel man came up.

    So finally, it is there now and I am awaiting their diagnosis. It is great to know from you what sort of problems I can expect so that I can mentioned this to him, so at least he knows that I am not a complete idiot (well, with some help from all of you, thanks! ;-) ).

    Will post further, once I know...

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    82

    Re: Loss of power

    Oh my God!

    They have just called me an are quoting for $2860, effectively a reconditioning and also a swap of the timing control valve (which itself costs around $800).

    This is the problem list:
    -Pump housing worn near advance piston
    -drive shaft bushes worn
    -roller assemply for advance carrier cage - worn near housing
    -need new drive shaft - worn in journal area?
    -seal lips cut into shaft
    -transfer pump guides - blades are worn

    -evidence of water contamination - bit of corrosion
    -gummy residue on internal filter
    -timing control valve works but they want to replace it - they are prepared to wait with replace until they test pump

    parts list:
    -drive shaft
    -pump housing
    -transfer pump
    -roller assembly kit
    -2 trust washers on plunger
    -drive shaft oil seal

    They are saying that the pressure regulator is ok. Timing control valve may be ok but could be blocked.

    I asked what has caused the sudden deterioration in performance, he said most of this has been happening over a long time, like housing probably in last 60000kms (I have only been on veg for maybe 20000+kms). Never answered my question.

    All of the above does not say much to me (I was taking notes - not sure if I wrote it down correctly)? One option is I am told is for me to go and get a second hand pump - but what if I end up with same problem?

    Any ideas? Help!!

    Surfie

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    82

    Re: Loss of power

    Just rang Toyota! A brand new pump is $2500, with the $550 fitting, I am almost better of paying for a brand new one!

    Maybe I need to hunt around for a reconditioned one, but how can I be sure that it is built properly?

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    82

    Re: Loss of power

    I went to see my pump. It was fully disassembled. He showed me all the bits he thought he needed to change.

    Now, I must say that as you found out I know nothing about IPs, but I have seen nothing obvious from what he showed me that would have caused a catastrophic failure.

    A little bit of wear here or there, but nothing dramatic. I know these pumps work on high pressure and I am not sure about the tolerances, but none of these would have made it stop from what I could see.

    One thing that caught my attention was that the internal filter had some muck on it, blocking about a third/quarter of the filter, but the other side was clean.

    I couldn't help thinking that the regulating valve must be faulty although he says that the timing control valve he would also change given that I had a timing control problem.

    He kind of admitted that certain parts maybe we could leave, like drive shaft, transfer pump, but this would only cut $250 off the price.

    In the meantime, I have located a brand new pump now for $2200, so it is still not worth the repair, even with fitting and I also end up with spare parts that way.

    Maybe I need to push him to only change the regulating valve or timing control valve...

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Lake Macquarie (just south of Newcastle) NSW
    Posts
    1,363

    Re: Loss of power

    I had anIP dismantled and was quoted $2k+ to overhaul so I got exchange recon IP from Denco at Wagga for $1,600. Mine had only done 110,000 km and another IP guy had a look at the old bits and said it could be put back together and work fine.
    Gotta fly now but will post again tomorrow with more detail. I reckon you are getting ripped off.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Townsville, North Queensland
    Posts
    611

    Re: Loss of power

    Quote Originally Posted by surfie View Post
    -gummy residue on internal filter

    From your list I'd say this is the winner. Blocked internal filter would explain why you had very little/no return. Also this would starve the high pressure part of the pump.

    The pressure regulator with a stuffed 'O' ring would also do the same, but as they say the reg is OK, then that leaves the screen.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    445

    Re: Loss of power

    Hi surfie,

    for sure some places try one on you.

    I just did a complete rebuilt of my Toyota inline ip after 700,000km. The first price I got was $1600. After a bit of searching on the net I found $1000 was about norm for a reco changeover pump.

    To cut a long story short it ended up costing $1000 to do a full reco on my own pump.

    I agree with the others it prob only a blocked ip filter. If newer model ip's wear out at low km's like yours then I'm never selling my old troopy.

    God bless, froggo.
    HJ45 Landcruiser Troopy
    Home made 2 tank system
    Blending in main diesel tank
    SVO/WVO Converted 18/01/08
    http://www.biofuelsforum.com/svo_users/3667-hj45_troopy_conversion.html

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    1,128

    Re: Loss of power

    Quote Originally Posted by Qwarla View Post
    From your list I'd say this is the winner. Blocked internal filter would explain why you had very little/no return. Also this would starve the high pressure part of the pump.

    The pressure regulator with a stuffed 'O' ring would also do the same, but as they say the reg is OK, then that leaves the screen.
    I second that, for sure.

    "I asked what has caused the sudden deterioration in performance, he said most of this has been happening over a long time, like housing probably in last 60000kms (I have only been on veg for maybe 20000+kms). Never answered my question."

    This doesn't add up does it? Slow wear over a period of time won't cause a sudden loss of performance.
    When my internal screen gummed up I went from good performance to 40ks top speed in one trip. Each time I stopped the car and restarted it dropped 10ks in top speed, When you are 300ks from home and 40kmh is the most you can manage it takes a long time to get home

    If you were in Adelaide I'd get the seal replaced for $20 for you, clean it and put it back together for you. I find it hard to believe that the vane pump and body is worn beyond limits at 180,000km You are however in a difficult position with the pump in bits in his shop, but you could shop around and then pay him off and take the parts to someone else.
    Johnnojack
    4WD Isuzu Jackaroo 3.1 170,000km on WVO,(2017) 2 tank home built system 6 solenoids. Mk. 9 version. Improvements under investigation

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Darwin, NT Australia
    Posts
    53

    Re: Loss of power

    Im not a diesel mechanic and I may be nieve, but I do understand why once it is apart and they find one thing needs replacing, they go to get the whole lot replaced. If they put it all back together after just cleaning one filter and charge a few bucks to do it and then 6 months later the slightly worn part that has dried out a little while it was sitting on the bench leaks.... well we arent happy campers then when they have to do a second repair job.

    I would get him to fix the worst bits and clean out the filter and put it back. My car regularly loses power and blows white smoke. Its usually that gauze filter or the return hose filter....

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,075

    Re: Loss of power

    Just ask him for a price to clean the screen and reassemble the IP and verify it does work on his test bench.
    If the price is reasonable, do that and take the chance that the screen was the only thing wrong.
    If it doesn't go for very long, then get a recond or new IP as discussed earlier, and fit that.

    Your call.
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    Toyota Camry Hybrid - (Wife's Car)

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]



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