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Thread: 1hz wont rev heaps of smoke

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,143

    Re: 1hz wont rev heaps of smoke

    Wayne,
    You have been offered a number of possible causes of your fuel starvation issue.
    You have added that using the fuel primer improves max RPM attainable, verifying the Fuel starvation diagnosis.

    Please eliminate the inexpensive remedies before spending upwards of a hundred dollars on a fuel pump which may not resolve the issue.

    1. Air in Fuel system - Install a clear fuel line in the return from the IP. Run the engine at 2K RPM and look for air bubbles in the clear hose. If present, verify all connections from your fuel filter to IP (your tests suggest that this is where the problem lays).

    2. Primer pump partial blockage in connections - disconnect the primer pump and verify that there is no blockage there.

    3. Check fuel tank pick-up screen is clean.

    Report back to us on your findings.

    Other Toyota Land Cruisers have been converted to using WVO without needing additional fuel pumps. Yours is a newer model, but the fuel system from the tank to IP is similar to the older ones. You are using biodiesel which should be less viscous than WVO, yet you are having fuel starvation issues. I believe that you will identify the cause of the fuel starvation by checking each of these potential causes.

    If you want to throw money at the problem, just buy and install an electric pump and hope it fixes the problem.

    Regards,
    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    Toyota Camry Hybrid - (Wife's Car)

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    Parts Car C220 1993 All body panels, headlights, interior engine and ECU available.


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  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    cairns
    Posts
    5

    Re: 1hz wont rev heaps of smoke

    Tony thanks for that advise as soon as i can i will try the steps you have given me and i will get back to you, should i drain the diesel out and put biodiesel back in to try these steps. or will it also work with (shop diesel) and if i find the cause then put bio back in and see if the problem is fixed,

    Thanks again Wayne

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,143

    Re: 1hz wont rev heaps of smoke

    Wayne, Here are some random ramblings of an old codger, on your problem.

    It would appear that the problem is not as significant with the petro diesel. That said, air may still be evident in the return line if air is the issue.
    Any partial restriction in the primer pump plumbing will not disappear when diesel is in the fuel line and the pick up will also be in the same condition as before, so these can be checked without changing fuel.

    Have you got a vacuum / pressure gauge available?
    If you can Tee one into the IP fuel inlet, you will see if there is a pressure issue.

    If the fuel vacuum increase occurs when loaded, at moderate RPM, this could indicate a fuel blockage. This can cause a suspect joint to suck air into the fuel line. In the worst case situation, I would not like to see more than 5" Hg (inches of mercury) of vacuum at the IP inlet. Under normal conditions, with WVO and new fuel filters, I would expect less than 2" Hg vacuum at the IP inlet. This should be less when using biodiesel.

    With the engine running at 2K RPM, on diesel, and with a clear return line hose, restrict the fuel hose prior to the primer pump until the engine starts to run rough (fuel starvation), then check for air in the return line. I have a fuel hose clamp pliers which I use to restrict the fuel hose, but a pair of fine nose vice grips should do fine. Just increase the jaw pressure a little at a time until the fuel restriction occurs. This will simulate a fuel restriction elsewhere and should show up any weak hoses or other components leaking air into the fuel system. Relocate the restriction to after the primer pump and at other locations to isolate the location of any air leak.

    The idea of having a Jerry Can of biodiesel is good, but a 2 litre PET bottle may be more convenient. If you put a flex hose to the IP and a flex hose on the return to the bottle, you should be able to operate the engine at full RPM on biodiesel. This will prove the IP and injectors. Moving the fuel supply connection further towards the tank ( fuel filter out, primer in, etc) should highlight any suspect areas.

    I will post any other Ideas as they come to mind..
    Have fun exploring the issue, don't stress, it is just another learning experience.

    Regards,
    Tony
    Last edited by Tony From West Oz; 15th October 2010 at 12:46 AM.
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    Toyota Camry Hybrid - (Wife's Car)

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    Parts Car C220 1993 All body panels, headlights, interior engine and ECU available.


    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  4. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    77

    Re: 1hz wont rev heaps of smoke

    Tony,

    You don 't have a Toyota 1HZ so perhaps you should be a little more circumspect in telling people that do have one what they should and shouldn't do.

    Fitting an electric lift pump is a modification that many people with these motors have made, for reasons that are nothing to do with bio. It solves a dozen problems and makes any maintenance a whole lot easier. Look on any 4WD forum.

    Also, if it's fuel starvattion, what's the white stuff?

    I had problems with fuel starvation with mine due to a faulty IP. Motor didn't rev properly and top speed was about 80kmh, but there was no smoke whatever.

    But don't take my word for it - post your question at Australian 4WD Action | Forum - Index page

    You'll find thousands of people with 1HZ motors who will provide a whole lot more expert mechanical advice than you'll find on this forum

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    77

    Re: 1hz wont rev heaps of smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by gibbo135 View Post
    Hi mark do you have a picture of a lift pump so i know what to buy and where i might get one (auto shops) cause i think that is what the problem is,
    Thanks wayne
    Here you go:

    Vegie Cars - VegieCars Conversion Products, WVO, SVO, UCO, Veggie Oil, Chip Oil, Biodiesel, Biofuel

    This is a fully bio compatible pump, and unlike other options is small and quiet (Walbro make one but it's very noisy).

    Interestingly, he quotes the price in $US as well so it should be pretty cheap now

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Brisbane (North Side)
    Posts
    707

    Re: 1hz wont rev heaps of smoke

    Hi All,

    I'm gunna jump in here, as I do have a 1HZ, and i recently overcame the exact symptoms that Gibbo is mentioning. I PM'd Gibbo as I figured that was the best way to get my message across without ruffling feathers as everyone has a different way of looking at things.

    I believe the white smoke is unburnt fuel. when running petroleum based diesel, white smoke normally implies low compression,. however my compressions are fine and it always smokes on initial firing at start. when my car was running rough, it would always smoke at misfire, indicating unburnt fuel. please someone prove me wrong, but I firmly beleiive that when running bio, white smoke = unburnt fuel.

    Gibbo, I am convinced you have a fuel starvation problem. my money is a leak in the fuel line. try runnning it flat stick with no load for a few moments and see if the "blockage" clears and it revs out. mine was doing this to the extreme. as suggested by yourself, would not go above 2000 and would misfire and fart terribly for a minute or two, but then viola, would clear its throat and be off. would run perfectly untill i shut the engine off, after which case it would repeat the problem each and every time.

    to read more about my issues, search for 1hz odd problem or something similar.

    I think if you find the time to have a look Dr Mark, this forum is very helpful tool, especially to the newcomers to running alternative fuels. I have gained many pearls of wisdom from the likes of Tony, alga, Johnno Jack (the list is too long) etc, as thier knowledge and attitude towards helping others is the very essence of this forum.

    I am not sure about providing positive pressure to the IP, something about about this seems to be tempting fate in my eyes, but if it works for some, thats fine.

    All I know is that once I got past my leaking water trap tap and solved the majority of my air leaks, the engine runs sweet as a bird.

    I am coming up to 130,000 km's now without an additional pump, and frankly if I need one on this engine, it would indicate that something has changed or failed, and to my way of thinking, i would prefer to fix it properly rather than bodgey it up. nope - no positive pressure to my IP for me.

    I hope you manage to get your donk runing nice Gibbo, as its a great motor.
    Regards,

    Cade.

    2002 100 series Landcruiser
    240,000 Km and counting on B100, 330,000km total on car.
    Naturally aspirated, Walbro Pusher pump just upstream of tank switch valves, Cav filter with reversed fuel flow direction.
    At 160,000 km Rebuilt pump, Reconditioned head and manifolds, glow plugs. Injectors all good after 160,000 km on B100.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Jimboomba QLD
    Posts
    27

    Re: 1hz wont rev heaps of smoke

    Hi there I had the same thing happen with my 03 1hz it ended up been the filter in the fuel tank hope this helps aaron.



  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    whyalla sth. aust
    Posts
    224

    Re: 1hz wont rev heaps of smoke

    this is straight from my 2h workshop manual under excessive exhaust smoke
    " NOTE at high speed 2000-3000 rpm a clogged filter tends to make exhaust smoke white." I know yours is 1hz and i am not familiar with it but diesel motor basic diagnostics apply in general, so as caveman mark and arron have alluded to a blockage, and my moneys on the fuel tank one that arron mentions regards andy

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    77

    Re: 1hz wont rev heaps of smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by Captaincademan View Post

    I am not sure about providing positive pressure to the IP, something about about this seems to be tempting fate in my eyes, but if it works for some, thats fine.
    Actually, it works for everyone that's done it (and if you hunt around 4Wd forums you'll find plenty). There are absolutely no down sides to it and plenty of upsides.

    There are two types of 1HZ owners in this world - those that prime their fuel system by pumping a dicky little knob that has about 1 cm travel, and pumping, and pumping, and cursing, and pumping, and then stopping for a rest, and pumping, and pumping, and stopping for a rest, and cursing Toyota, and pumping..until fuel starts to flow out of the hose - and those that fit a lift pump, and just turn on the ignition, and sit back and wait for the pump to do its stuff.

    And it's not a bodgy fix at all - even if it's not a fix in this case, it'll help him find it by making it easier to prime the system.

    The other thing about it, of course, is that with positive pressure up stream of the IP, the system is lesss susceptible to leaks. If there's a poor connection upstream of the standard IP it will suck air and you have problems. With +ve pressure however, the same connection will weep a bit of fuel because the fuel is being PUSHED, not SUCKED.

    And it's almost as though Toyota realise that they stuffed up by not fitting a lift pump - under the car, just forward of the main tank, there's a cavity that's just perfect. Make up a little bracket to attach the pump to the body, find a 12V connection, and bob's your uncle - a short gravity feed into the pump, and the +ve pressure does the rest.

    But anyhow, if you chase these questions on the 4WD forum you'll find many experts who know these engines inside out, and you'll probably save a lot of time.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    261

    Re: 1hz wont rev heaps of smoke

    Gday all
    I also own a 1hz and have done 130,000 klm on bio with no issues (no lift pump)but my mate running dino did have issues ,he took his car to a few diesel mechanic's and they start saying injector pump gone needs overhaul ect,ect by the way my mates a mechanic and he was stumped i came along with a trick that i read on this forum (Jerry can plumbed to injector pump)and with a swap out of my primer pump into his car i'd sorted out what other mechanic's could'nt ,we cut open his primer pump to reveal a piece of plastic blocking a valve, every time he went to start his car the fuel had drained back into his fuel tank because this valve was stuck open (losing prime) causing him to crank forever to get the car started.

    thanks caveman
    ps: cademan try double glowing before you start in the morning it sorted my issue of smoke on start up
    Last edited by Captain_caveman; 15th October 2010 at 10:06 PM.
    2002 100 series 100,000 on B100

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