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Thread: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    numurkah
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    Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

    good luck on your trip, I sure you will have the time of your life, your bio shot needs ice, a wedge of lemon and one of those little umbrellas, a bendy straw, a deck chair, served by a super model on a beach.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    Sydney
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    8

    Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

    Thanks for the continued feedback everyone.

    Yeah we've got a s**tload to learn! We've only been producing biodiesel for about 6 months now, using a static processor in the back yard (that's the stainless one you see on the back of the ute). Stepping up to a portable processor is our biggest challenge. At the moment we're all flat out in the office trying to gain some financial support for the trip, so designing this processor has been put on the back burner. Not smart! I see us stopping at every hardware shop through Australia to solve our probs.

    As I've mentioned, we'll be using microfilters to make sure our fuel is fine enough to go into the common rail, this'll also remove any excess glycerine that doesn't settle over the 8-10 hours we'll be giving it. My biggest hurdle will be the wash - we won't have the luxury of time to be doing thorough water washes (let alone the stable platform!). At the moment dry wash is our answer - but I'm not convinced this is sufficient to remove all catalyst, and we can't have any left floating around if our engine is to last 40000km. Tim I appreciate your feedback, you're absolutely right in that the biodiesel forum here will be a wealth of knowledge for me. Once construction of this thing starts I'll upload daily videos of the progress. This'll be when I'm up the creek without a paddle and looking for advice, coming to you guys will be invaluable to us.

    So I guess to summarise that: we're young, dumb and full of ignorance. But that's what makes it exciting for me (and will make for a great TV series - hopefully!) What we're attempting is possible on paper, it'll be our blood, sweat, tears and failures that'll eventually make it happen.

    Ha, thanks for your feeback Cade. We'll be facing about 12 degree temps when we get to Norway (the arse end of summer), so we'll have to cuddle up to our biodiesel and share body heat at night. Our methanol tank will be built as a standard fuel tank attached to the vehicle - but I'm sure it'll still raise eyebrows at the borders. I'm picturing us trying to explain what the processor is to a Chinese official.. in English.

    You'll be decided that we're mad/stupid once you hear this... As for shipping the vehicle, we're sending it to Singapore with empty tanks. Chuck, our welder, is currently building a 5.4m tinny that we're going to jump in at Darwin. Point north and shoot. We've purchased a diesel outboard for the boat and have a mini processor on board and will island hop all our way to Singapore. Stopping in a coastal communities along the way to collect waste oil. We're then donating our tinny to a tsunami affected community (this is being administered through a South East Asia NGO).

    I'm sure we're putting some peoples noses outta joint with our plans, can't apologise for that. But we'll cop it all on the chin, it's those with the constructive criticism that we love.

    Ice and lemon, that's what we were missing. Thanks for the lightheartedness smithw!

  3. #13
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    Apr 2007
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    numurkah
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    552

    Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

    to make your bio quickly you might want to make it with KOH, as it reacts more quickly, and is more forgiving of water in the oil, then centrifuge it to get the glycerine and soap out of it, I know this is how the commercial guys do it and can make a batch in 20 minutes I've heard.
    Centrifuges for oil cleaning and biodiesel glycerine separation | EuroFuelTech
    http://www.biofuelsforum.com/svo_use..._pump_use.html
    Ive seen one on you tube as well.
    Diesel outboard, where did you find that?

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Brisbane SEQ
    Posts
    705

    Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

    I can't comprehend the possible problems , but I'd put a thousand litre tote on the back and go buy some Bio from a local producer.... maybe ??

    just a thought.

    regards
    Michael

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    southern Victoria
    Posts
    47

    Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

    Bob,

    we'll be using microfilters to make sure our fuel is fine enough to go into the common rail, this'll also remove any excess glycerine that doesn't settle over the 8-10 hours we'll be giving it
    If you still have glyc in solution the microfilter will not help a lot. The filters will remove particulates and unprocessed fats that have reformed.

    If you run through your process, then a few here might be able to give some helpful tips, rather than just coming up with a few snippets here and there.
    Personally I think you should aim to go from Sydney to Adelaide and back as an initial run well before the big journey to attempt to iron out the potential problems.

    If you have done your sums you would know that you will need ~1300 litres of Methanol and ~65 kg of KOH. The smart thing would be to make some contacts in various parts of the world now for gaining some of these supplies along the way.

    Bill

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    brisbane
    Posts
    331

    Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

    Finely filtered Bio is easily achieved, the viscosity of the material will remain unchanged. Isn't the higher viscosity of Bio one of the problems with high pressure common rail fuel systems.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    South West Sydney
    Posts
    414

    Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

    Good luck boys, stay focused on your goals and don't let anyone put doubt in your minds. I think your major challenges will be logistical and political rather than technical. Processing issues are manageable, check your messages I've listed a few suggestions.

  8. #18
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    Jan 2006
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    Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

    Quote Originally Posted by smithw View Post
    to make your bio quickly you might want to make it with KOH, as it reacts more quickly,
    I have never heard that before. Can you give a link to where you found that information
    I know this is how the commercial guys do it
    I think you will find that the majority of the commercial guys use sodium methylate.
    and can make a batch in 20 minutes I've heard.
    It all depends on temperature and vigour of mixing.
    Mike Jureidini from SAFF once said their reactor achieved 99% conversion to ester in 10 seconds, mostly due to the vigor of the mixing .

  9. #19
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    Apr 2007
    Location
    numurkah
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    552

    Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

    Hi tilly Have a look at the book biodiesel for the small producer by paul martin. isbn 0-646-45757-8
    Biodiesel for the Small Producer - Google Books
    has a sample of the book there are 40 pages in all.
    as far as the comerical guys making it in 20 mins this was to the end product washed and dryed, and I meet a guy who worked at a plant in SA before it was closed down and he told me they used a centrifuge and koh, I only repeating what ive been told.
    also I have used both Naoh, and KOH methods and Koh is way faster.
    hope this helps.

  10. #20
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    Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

    Quote Originally Posted by smithw View Post
    Hi tilly Have a look at the book biodiesel for the small producer by paul martin. isbn 0-646-45757-8
    Biodiesel for the Small Producer - Google Books
    has a sample of the book there are 40 pages in all.
    I have had a look and I can not find where Paul says that the KOH reaction is faster than the NaOH reaction. Can you provide the page number?
    as far as the comerical guys making it in 20 mins this was to the end product washed and dryed,
    Produced, washed and dried in 20 minutes is pretty remarkable. As I recall Myke said the SAFF reactor was a continuous processor and the oil had a 15 minute residence time in the reactor. That leaves 5 minutes for washing and drying. Can you provide a link?
    and I meet a guy who worked at a plant in SA before it was closed down and he told me they used a centrifuge and koh, I only repeating what ive been told.
    That might be one of the reasons why they are closed. If they were not using sodium methylate they should have been using Sodium Hydroxide, it is a cheaper than Potassium hydroxide.
    Biodiesel magazine says; "Today sodium methylate is estimated to represent 70 percent of the global biodiesel catalyst market."
    also I have used both Naoh, and KOH methods and Koh is way faster.
    I have used both too and I never came to the conclusion that KOH was "way faster". I think they are about the same but have never performed and lab tests to prove it one way or the other.
    Can you describe the testing procedures you used to determine that the KOH reaction was faster than the NaOH reaction?

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