Well... after waiting a year and a half.... I've finally found out that there is now a retail outlet / station for Biodiesel in Sydney.

Right on my doorstep, in Marrickville (http://www.thebiodieselstation.com).

So... Time to fill up... better ring Peugeot Australia first... just to see about warranty and Biodiesel. Here's the response...

Me - Hi I was just wondering what would be the best Biodiesel blend to use in my 307 HDi?
Peugeot - Please Hold... hand over phone... mutter... mutter... mutter
Peugeot - Sorry you can't use Biodiesel
Me - hmmm... why not?
Peugeot - It's got a plastic manifold.
Me - a plastic what?

Well... news to me.

I bought the 307HDi version specifically because I saw the rise in the use of Biodiesel as a sensible and envrionmental alternative to petro dependence. And a goddamn plastic manifold aint going to stop me!

Can any members provide information about the use of Biodiesel in an Australian Supplied late model Peugeot HDi engine? Modifications / issues etc...

It would be greatly appreciated!!!

Cheers

307 Guy

307_GUY

Peugeot Australia would be lucky to spell the name right.

PSA makes HDI engines for Citroen and Peugeot. Peugeot Germany allows 30% Biodiesel in their engines (except the ones fitted with particle filters).

PSA runs their diesel fleet in France on 30% BD.

So the only problem could be the particle filter. Suggest you do an international search or contact PSA in France.

Good Luck

Andreas

307_Guy, well I spoke to someone a BIT more intelligent at Peugeot Australia, I pressed him and reading between the lines and he said so as well, it will. Main issue is that it must be well made and I do mean well.

With that in mind, my 04 307 HDi now has nearly 20,000 km on B100. No issues at all but I do live in warmer climes than you hence its better in winter than you could expect.

Let me know, there is nothing in the car that will give grief as far as I know,

Matt

Well a second post to give you the bad news, there had to be some.
The Biodiesl Station emailed me today to advise it is closing due to the operator not paying monthly lease payments. They closed to as the operator was locked out.

Oh well you could always read a bit and make your own.

Matt

Hi 307 GUY, I find the contents of your post very surprising as it seems that Peugeot have done a complete 180 degree back-flip on their views about biodiesel. When talking to my local dealer (when biodiesel use in Australia was just starting) Peugeot were 100% supportive and encouraging. Now they tell their Australian customers "no.. you can't use it". I can't understand their stand on this as their main market (Europe) has an abundance of the stuff. Do they expect us to believe that it is only Australia that gets a plastic manifold? Peugeot pride themselves on being "green" and world leaders by increasing the use of recyclable plastics within their vehicles, especially the engine components. For goodness sake, my 1993 405 has more plastic in and around the engine bay than any other car of that era that I have ever seen, so that has only got to increase with time and technology. Even the %!@$# fuel lines are plastic (...NOT a good idea in Australia).
(Gets on soapbox....feeling annoyed)
What crap are the telling us now! Especially now that we have Government standards set for the manufacture of biodiesel. Do they think their diesel customers are idiots? I find that people who choose to buy diesel engined vehicles tend to be smarter people who have thought about it and can see the benefits. Their desire to use biodiesel is an extension of that thought process.
(Gets off soapbox....feeling calmer)
I tend to agree with ARKH that it is probably related to the particle filter, and more specifically, with the fuel additive that is mixed in with the fuel to allow the correct temperature to be reached to allow the accumulated soot within the particle filter to burn off. I suspect that there may be some compatability issues with a fluid that was originally designed to work with a mineral based fuel and using a vegetable based fuel. I have read on the side of some commercial American diesel additive bottles that they should only be used with mineral based fuels and NOT with vegetable based fuels.
What a stupid system. BMW and VW don't need any additives at all for their particle filters to work properly and efficiently.

If anyone from Peugeot Australia reads this, would you like to enlighten us on these thoughts??

__________________

Biodiesel from animal fats....twenty two chickens to the litre.

Hello, I'm new here... I was actually looking for the same answer to the question in this thread!

Well I found the answer...

For ALL Peugeot's with FAP - Particulate filter, Biodiesel is incompatible.

Here is the source information:::: (in German, but google always works wonders for me!)

http://www.peugeot.de/dialog/faq/fra...q_frage&id=157

it seems that the maximum allowed concentration of Biodiesel in dino fuel is 5% bio!

For other Peugeot diesels the guidelines seems to be that a 30% mix is ok... but if you have a FAP filter then forget about it:::::::

http://www.peugeot.de/dialog/faq/fra...aq_frage&id=55

I'm actually gutted to read this because I ordered and pick up my 307 HDi 136BHP monster this weekend and one of the reasons I searched out and bought a diesel 307 is for it to exclusively run off of biodiesel.
Of course the sales man couldn't enlighten me as to whether it would run alright on bio, so I went for it.

Anyway great car... shame about the biodiesel!

Hi Tony,

Whereabouts in Switzerland are you? I've had a look at the site you mentioned and cut & pasted the google translation below:


I think what they are saying there (translation is good, but not that good), is that biodiesel and particulate filters are not a problem in themselves, but they are concerned about off-spec biodiesel entering the fuel supply chain and causing issues. I believe that France already has 5% biodiesel in all diesel fuel (B5). I guess that they can be sure about their own standards, but they are worried about what may happen when other countries and suppliers (they call them "fuel offerers") start to blend biodiesel into their fuels.

I suspect that this fear may be baseless, as I believe that there are good European standards in place (this is just what I've heard in Australia). It seems very common of vehicle manufacturers to be not properly informed of these standards and then err on the side of caution, or to put it another way - cover their arses.

I think they are also afraid, from reading between the lines of this translation, that unreacted biodiesel (not methyl esters, but straight vegetable oil, or rapeseed oil) might be used to mix into fuel. There have been many cases in the past of vehicle and vehicle component manufacturers doing studies on fuels that were not biodiesel, such as blended unreacted vegetable oil and thinking that they were biodiesel. Unfortunately, these results were simply published (very widely too) as being the results of testing on "biodiesel". There are still many publications that will show photographs of the inside of a gummed up fuel pump destroyed after "biodiesel". It is a sad fact for those promoting biodiesel that we've mostly already lost the propaganda war in cases like these.

The truth is that biodiesel made to the correct specification will not cause damage and in most cases will actually prolong engine life and component longevity.

The simple fact of the matter is that no vehicle manufacturer warrants their car for the fuel that gets put in it. They warrant it against defects in the manufacture. If a user buys some contaminated fuel from a supplier (perhaps with water, perhaps with rust, or other dirt) and their filter gets clogged, or their injector pump dies, the manufacturer will say that it is a fuel supply problem and it is not warranted. Simple. Saying that they do not provide a warranty for the use of biodiesel is not really new news, it's just them covering themselves.

I've also heard of a European survey done recently by a biodiesel supplier that analysed biodiesel complaints against the found solution. There were many cases of biodiesel being blamed for killing injector pumps. When the case was analysed, the fuel in the tank was found to be biodiesel, but the fuel in the pump was found to be petro diesel. So what happened? People cashing in on the ill-informed scare mongering. If their injector pump died of natural causes (usually because of the ultra-low sulphur petro diesel not providing enough lubricity), then they can fill up the tank with some bio and try and get the biodiesel supplier to pay for it! The point is that 95% of the time, most people do not hear the final result, just the "first page news" and unfairly blame biodiesel due to ignorance and lack of thorough research and diligence.

Now, after my long rant, I'd like to point out that I do not know much about particulate filters, as they are (unfortunately) almost non-existent in Australia at the moment. I do know that biodiesel (even in small blends) significantly decreases particulates at the exhaust due to the fact that it is oxygenated and burns more completely, thus reducing the unburned soot particles normally left behind by the petro diesel. I can't see how this could have a detrimental effect on the particulate filter. If anything I would think this would make the particulate filter last longer as it would not get clogged as quickly.

Am I missing something here? If anyone has any better info on why a model with a particulate filter may be deemed as "biodiesel incompatible", then please enlighten us, otherwise, I'll keep my opinion that it is just the usual ill-informed arse covering that goes on.

__________________
Robert.
Site Admin.

Hello.... I live in Geneva, but infact I am a Brit! I've lived here for over 3 years now. Nice place! (Beats the UK anyway)

I think you may well have a point regarding what you say above...

However as for the FAP filter I think the major difference, and thus the problem, is that Peugeot use a different system to the others in that every 30,000km (could be more - not sure!) the filter is designed to burn off the particles that are filtered in the unit. This is done by injecting a small amount of fuel.

I presume that the biodiesel is incompatible with this catalyst and it is this that is the issue here.

However I have no idea if that is the truth or not.. perhaps someone with a little scientific knowledge could help here!

I just found this - now I'm confused....

http://sustainability.psa-peugeot-ci...niv3=2&id=1917

Interestingly my '04 307 has started to give an anti pollution fault on the display. It did this last weekend after a good long run and it dropped power output I gather to get home.

I cannot understand that bio will harm soot filters if it is well made as it burns more completely and has far less particulate emissions. Bio's temp of combustion is as high as that of mineral diesel (NOx is an indication of this). I will have to ask the local agent more about this as I believe I do not have a soot filter or any special additives, just a catalytic converter (for NOx) and a muffler. The later models may have these.

More to follow. It is intermittent at the moment as the car started normally next day and has run fine all week.

Matt