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  • Power Lost Addressed and Fixed

    I have fixed the power lost problem I experienced by using bio diesel in my HDJ80 Toyota Landcruiser.

    Using bio I had heaps more low down torque, but top end I lost power.
    That was the case until the weekend and I have now got heaps all through the rev range, I can't wait to the trip back from Cooma after I load the trailer with a Ton of Firewood and see how much better it goes on those hills. Fuel economy should improve however with more power it's hard to not flog it that little bit more.

    Walbro - Pusher Pump
    HDJ80 (aka Kiwipete)
    Canberra

  • #2
    Re: Power Lost Addressed and Fixed

    What caused the power loss?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Power Lost Addressed and Fixed

      I can only postulate that he is referring to the inevitable loss of power when burning mineral diesel. In the Landcruiser it seems that after a pump rebuild/recalibration and cleaned or new injectors its goes like the clappers and slowly gets worse with time. Other cars may be the same?

      Running B100 cleans it out and it goes like it used to all the time, at least that's what I have found! Let the good times roll.

      HDJ80, I put mine onto the dyno, 93kW on mineral, 88kW on B100. That is within / thereabouts of the estimated 5% loss. Keep smiling, and stay away from that govt stealing tax (GST).

      MP
      Biodiesel Bandit

      Landcruiser '98 80 series B100.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Power Lost Addressed and Fixed

        Actually Matt,
        My 80 has just recently had a pump rebuild and I'd be really peeved if that was the problem. But I was only referring to the 5% you mentioned and some nice guy in Brisbane offered some advice that i should install a Walbro Pusher pump. Which I did last weekend and honestly it has made a huge difference.
        Also - My 80 has a well used battery which I will be replacing very soon (but not as soon now I have the Walbro), before walbro my 80 in the cool/cold mornings on bio would lazily turn over then start, now starting in the mornings, I allowed the walbro to pressurise the system and the 1HD-T fires up immediately when the key is turned.
        I have all that extra low torque Biodiesel gives out and I now have the top end power back as if it was running on Dino.
        I hope you are not suggesting that a pusher pump is only any good on the big Toyota six's That would not be a good thing for those less fortunate I thought that a pusher pump was to assist the fuel system to get fuel to the main pump so it did not have to labour on to suck up fuel, which in turn saved power.... I maybe way off base but if it works on the 1HD-T surely there are other engines that are running bio that would love a little help like a low pressure fuel pusher pump......
        HDJ80 (aka Kiwipete)
        Canberra

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Power Lost Addressed and Fixed

          Peter, actually you are using the pusher pump for exactly the reasoning I bought it for, the colder weather makes it more viscous and I wanted something to ease the pump working to suck it up. Coupled with the fact that the pump is calibrated with a positive inlet pressure, so why run it in the car with a negative inlet pressure?

          Cold weather is not really a problem for me as it is you as you well know. My pump is suffering from a very and I mean very blocked pickup in the main tank, it has caused a retaining ring at the bottom of the pump to drop making the pump not work very well. I will have to get in there and fix this, it happened before but I was too dim to realise what was causing it.

          Dirt has been cleaned out and I would recommend you do it too, its a 30 minute job, under the second row of seats, clean the pickup screen after taking it off with some petrol and rest easy knowing its clean. I can only say that diesel pumps put a lot of dirt into your tank over the years.

          Regards,
          Matt
          Biodiesel Bandit

          Landcruiser '98 80 series B100.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Power Lost Addressed and Fixed

            I forgot to say, "Yes I told you it would help", and yes every mechanically injected diesel would love a low pressure lift pump if it does not already have one.

            Matt
            I am missing that top end power as my pump is not working as it should, you have given me the impetus to do it over the coming break.
            Biodiesel Bandit

            Landcruiser '98 80 series B100.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Power Lost Addressed and Fixed

              Loss of top end power can also be attributed to lack of air flow (usually accompanied by smokey exhaust - black) or fuel starvation possibly with some white smoke, but not much if at all).
              Fuel starvation may be caused by filter blockage, fuel line restriction, air leakage, or high fuel viscosity.
              - Filters should be replaced to ensure they are free from restriction,
              - Fuel lines should be inspected to check for kinks or swollen flexible hoses (they can swell up, causing a blockage inside the hose)
              - Checks for air i nthe fuel supply and/or return lines can identify air leaks. Check all hoses for tightness and deterioration,
              - High fuel viscosity (especially with renewable fuels like biodiesel and/or Used Cooking Oils) van be overcome by adding a fuel pump to "push" or "assist" the IP in being supplied with fuel, larger bore fuel lines can be used to reduce the resistance to flow, larger flow rate filters and/or heating the fuel system can individually or in combination reduce the restriction to flow (and any fuel starvation) which may be experienced.

              By adding a fuel pressure/vacuum gauge, you can identify whether your problems are due to air leaks, or whether it is due to fuel flow restriction.
              Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

              Current Vehicles in stable:
              '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
              '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
              '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

              Previous Vehicles:
              '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
              '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
              '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
              '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
              '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
              '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
              '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
              '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
              '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

              Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
              Adding images and/or documents to your posts

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Power Lost Addressed and Fixed

                Thanks for that Tony, but I am fairly sure my fuel system is clean, from one end to the other. Filters are good, they are replaced regulalry too. Other things I will look for but I am referring to the top end boost the walbro gave, which stopped the fuel starvation issue.

                Regards,
                Matt
                Biodiesel Bandit

                Landcruiser '98 80 series B100.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Power Lost Addressed and Fixed

                  Are there any particular types of pumps that work best as Pushers? Rollers, Diagraph?
                  Anyone have any part numbers and rough costs of these pumps?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Power Lost Addressed and Fixed

                    David, it is imperative you get a low pressure pump otherwise it can affect your pump timing. A Walbro 6065 10 psi pump is recommended there maybe others, it costs between 175 and 200 and get it from Flexible Drive Agencies in your state or elsewhere!

                    It is an electronic piston type pump with one moving part.

                    Regards,
                    Matt
                    Biodiesel Bandit

                    Landcruiser '98 80 series B100.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Power Lost Addressed and Fixed

                      Originally posted by Matt
                      Thanks for that Tony, but I am fairly sure my fuel system is clean, from one end to the other. Filters are good, they are replaced regulalry too. Other things I will look for but I am referring to the top end boost the walbro gave, which stopped the fuel starvation issue.

                      Regards,
                      Matt
                      But you do not know whether the loss of high end power was due to an air leak or from a lack of pressure at the IP inlet. I know many people who have Toyota Landcruisers, who do not have this high end power loss when using biodiesel. Why do you?
                      Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

                      Current Vehicles in stable:
                      '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
                      '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
                      '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

                      Previous Vehicles:
                      '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
                      '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
                      '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
                      '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
                      '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
                      '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
                      '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
                      '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
                      '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

                      Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
                      Adding images and/or documents to your posts

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Power Lost Addressed and Fixed

                        Good question, I have previously only put it down to lack of fuel and I thought it was a design issue/vehicle issue. The Walbro solved it, so it could well have been an air leak, I do not think so as I see no air at all in my fuel bowl at any time. I could be wrong though. I have not wrung its neck out for some time as it gets to dangerous speeds and if I get another ticket I won't be happy. Its fast enough for my liking and it weighs in at 2.7 tonne so its not really safe to do it in the first,second or third place, if at all.

                        Matt
                        Biodiesel Bandit

                        Landcruiser '98 80 series B100.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Power Lost Addressed and Fixed

                          Originally posted by Matt View Post
                          David, it is imperative you get a low pressure pump otherwise it can affect your pump timing. A Walbro 6065 10 psi pump is recommended there maybe others, it costs between 175 and 200 and get it from Flexible Drive Agencies in your state or elsewhere!

                          It is an electronic piston type pump with one moving part.

                          Regards,
                          Matt
                          I have been chasing up walbro pumps on the net and find that the recommended model has been discontinued:
                          Walbro Reciprocating Fuel Pumps


                          Walbro Reciprocating Fuel Pumps

                          For many decades, Walbro has made the 2000 Series and 6000 Series fuel pumps. Those pumps were sold with names such as Dupree, Autopluse, AC, Stewart Warner, and Walbro. Those pumps supplied fuel to countless vehicles, boats, stoves, etc. in the past 50 years or so.

                          Well, the time has come to retire those fuel pump lines. Today's technologies enable Walbro to offer a new design that flows better, requires less current, and doesn't require periodic replacement of a bellows.

                          STANDARD FEATURES- ALL MODELS
                          Current requirement: < 2 amps average
                          Reverse polarity protected up to 60 minutes
                          Dry run to four (4) hours
                          Compatible with all commercially available pump grade gasoline, gasohol. diesel or bio-diesel
                          Operating temperature: -40 ~ +70C (-40 ~ +155F)
                          Transient voltage protected to 100 volts
                          U.S. Coast Guard 16623-1 and 16623-2 approved
                          European CE Standards EN 61000-6-2 and EN 6-3-2100 approved

                          FRB fuel pumps
                          Flow: to 225 lph (60 gph)
                          Self priming (dry lift) up to 48 inches (120 w/ check valve)
                          Ampere hours: up to 70% less than FRA & FRC
                          Continuous duty life (diesel fuel): >18000 hrs
                          Weight: 0.83 kg (1.83 lbs)
                          Pump cycles only when fuel is demanded
                          Replaceable filter
                          Inlet/Outlet fittings are 1/4-18 NPSF
                          96 hour salt spray test (ASTM B-117)

                          FRB-5 12V, 45 gal/hr, 8-11 psi pump, w/ two 5/16 hose barb fittings [replaces 6065] $95.00
                          including US shipping

                          I have just ordered 2 x FRB-5

                          One for my troopy and one for my son's Hilux Surf 2.0 TD

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Power Lost Addressed and Fixed

                            Paul that is good news, the FRB 5 is the way. I have one as well but do please tell me where did you get yours from, that is a good price. It makes a bit of noise, the knocking sound will reverberate through the chassis a bit, as the fuel get hot it gets quieter.

                            Matt
                            Biodiesel Bandit

                            Landcruiser '98 80 series B100.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Power Lost Addressed and Fixed

                              Originally posted by Matt View Post
                              Paul that is good news, the FRB 5 is the way. I have one as well but do please tell me where did you get yours from, that is a good price. It makes a bit of noise, the knocking sound will reverberate through the chassis a bit, as the fuel get hot it gets quieter.

                              Matt
                              Walbro Reciprocating Fuel Pumps

                              Comment

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