Our first diesel.. Mazda 6

[snaggs Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close snaggs]

My wife and I decided to get a diesel car to run the Gull B20 bio-diesel (I got rid of my car for a Bicycle). However, every car yard we've been to says you can't run bio-diesel more than 5% in them. This seems so ridiculous!

I then wrote a letter to Mazda and was called by John Brennan of Mazda Australia who explained that Gull won't state their Cetane level, and it has to be over 45 to work, so its not their fault. Gull then provided me with a BP Certificate of quality for the fuel, which shows a Cetane level of 59/60. I passed this onto Mazda, who was suprised, but then said that if they endorse it for one, they'd have to endorse it to all, and even though I have a certificate that its unlikely to change Mazda's position. We then looked at every other diesel car, Citroen, Volkswagen, Audi, Peugeot.. and they all came back with the same lame answer, 5%!

Anyways, we decided in the end and bought a Mazda 6 Diesel Wagon today.. its manual gearbox and 5.9L combined cycle being the clincher.

• Now the question is.. can we run this on B100?
• Since its brand new we shouldn't have any problems with particles clogging the filters should we?

Thanks in advance,

Daniel.

[Robert Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Robert]

Re: Our first diesel.. Mazda 6

hmm, I see you are about to embark on a learning curve here. You'll find out that the Australian marketplace has a complete reluctance to even look at biodiesel as far as the manufacturers are concerned. Dinosaurs.
The fact of the matter is that the spec for biodiesel has a higher cetane rating than for petro diesel (and many other qualities as well).

You will discover that many so called experts and people in authority will make nice confident blanket statements as to why biodiesel cannot be used that while sounding technical to the uneducated, actually are just babble and have nothing to do with the real facts.

Every one will give you a different story as to why biodiesel will harm your car. Some of them will sound convincing, as many urban myths do. Some of them will contain differing ideas about how your car will be damged, from rust, to electrical faults to tyre pressures going down - you would not believe what people come up with. Usually, it is the newest kid on the block to get blamed as far as engine technology goes - for example, biodiesel is frequently declined because an engine is "common rail" or because it has a particulate filter. Like all myths, most of them have a small basis in fact, but the conclusions that are drawn from these are made to cover the ignorance and/or the lack of testing done on the subject.

You'll find a wealth of discussion on particulate filters here, as well as some argument and a lot of people who are still a bit baffled by the whole thing. You'll see an example in the above link which indicates my point about urban myths on biodiesel. (A claim is made that because B100 is about 50% more viscous than petro-diesel it can cause nasty problems - this is not true of biodiesel, which has the same viscosity, but it may be true of straight vegetable oil blended with petro-diesel, which many people often think is biodiesel, hence many incorrect claims made against biodiesel).

Now for filter clogging, you will only get this with badly filtered fuel, fuel with crap in it, or it you have old deposits lining your tank from dino-diesel. It is also possible for filters to plug when the temperature drops and the fuel starts to cloud (tiny crystals form in it). Additionally, poorly made biodiesel can contain left overs which can clog a filter. In your case, being a new car and only getting fuel from reputable suppliers, you should not get these problems.

At the end of the day, you don't need to seek Mazda's blessing/endorsement, even if they were legislated to do it, they would still be massively reluctant. Eventually, hopefully car manufacturers will be dragged kicking and screaming out of the fossil age, but don't expect anything to change from a dinosaur just yet. Mazda, like any manufacturer are covering their arses by telling people not to use biodiesel. No manufacturer covers the fuel, full stop. The fuel supplier covers the fuel and the vehicle manufacturer covers the mechanical components from manufacturing defects. Many diesel engines have been killed and warranty claims refused from a bad batch of petro-diesel.

One of our other members in here, Gunner, has also bought the Madza 6, have a look at some of his recent posts for his thoughts on it (a little more cautious than mine).

I'd say go for the B20 and higher if you can get it. Common sense prevails, but make sure you educate yourself and be prepared to meet people with more "authority" than you regarding your car, who know a hell of a lot less, but will still not be afraid to spout complete crap.

[Gunner Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close Gunner]

Re: Our first diesel.. Mazda 6

Hi, Daniel, and welcome to the wonderful world of ignorant warranty conditions. I can't get the link that Robert made to work properly, so have a look at the thread on Diesel Oil for the Mazda6, and the one about DPF's. Heck, I've evn had a gripe about Mazda keeping customers in the dark with no workshop manual being available.

Despite the obstructions put in my way by Mazda Australia (ARE YOU READING THIS?), I remain deeply impressed by this car. Like you Daniel, I was amazed that a car this size with such sporty performance could return such good economy figures. I'm not overly convinced that good Diesel fuel economy is simply a hip pocket decision, but more rather that using less of any fuel is a good environmental decision. That the car also uses new technology like DPF filtering to improve emissions is another clean benefit. That I'm "Able" to use a renewable, Australian grown fuel like BD just makes it a score of 3 out of 3.

You would think that in the current climate (pun intended) of environmental concerns, any vehicle manufacturer would see the massive Public Relations benefits that that would result in being able to portray their product in a clean green way. I'm not saying that there is a huge swing to the Greenie mentality in the mainstream buying public, but if you could say that your product is significantly cleaner that a competitor's, and to no detriment to price or performance, you would have to be streets ahead. It utterly eludes me WHY manufacturers are not actively seeking to demonstrate that their vehicles can run perfectly on clean renewable fuels, as well as dirty dinofuel if you should so choose. That they should try to remain uncooperative and ignorant completely has me baffled!

Yes, I am treading tenderly in my use of Bio in the Mazda6. Mazda's instructions DO say not to use more than B5. If any damage or failure should occur, and that's a big IF as I am not convinced that it will, then I fully understand that Mazda will not be there to back me up. That could be a pricey way to prove a point! However, I would then be in an excellent position ( ) for Mazda to explain how BD has caused any damage, because they sure as H*** can't explain it now!

While I am spouting on about Mazda and the Mazda6 Diesel, these comments apply just as appropriately to every other manufacturer with a "New-Tech Diesel" (Economical, torquey, Common-Rail + DPF, low emission engineering marvel) in their line up. None of them have yet seen the benefit of coming out and saying "Our car is the best thing for your future, and that of the world". They just don't get it. Dunderheads! Anyway, you've made the right choice of picking a wonderful car. I'm sure you'll be very happy with it!