how hot is too hot?

[Urvey Member Find all posts View Profile Close Urvey]

Hi all,

On the open road(100km/h for extended periods) the temperature in my filter can climb to 100*C. before I stop some coolant flow to my FPHE. So, how hot is too hot for my VE type Injector pump?

My system uses an insulated 20 plate FPHE, HOH insulated along the enire line and an insulated looped return.

Cheers for the help.

[DutchAussie Member Find all posts View Profile Close DutchAussie]

Re: how hot is too hot?

Hi all,

On the open road(100km/h for extended periods) the temperature in my filter can climb to 100*C. before I stop some coolant flow to my FPHE. So, how hot is too hot for my VE type Injector pump?

My system uses an insulated 20 plate FPHE, HOH insulated along the enire line and an insulated looped return.

Cheers for the help.

Saw your note above. I have about 400 litres of WCO (Solid) in my shed in 20 l pails. I normally make Biodiesel from these but I have far too much now. Are you interested in using it as SVO in your vehicle?

If you are it is yours. If not someone else in this forum may want it.
I lve in the Adelaide Hills near Woodside.

[Geoffwin Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Geoffwin]

Re: how hot is too hot?

Interesting question and unfortunately I cannot help.

The heating for the oil is to melt and fats and keep the oil viscous so that it flows and acts more "like" diesel.

My query, in the same vein, is that in a toyota 1HZ with a denso IP the fuel actually acts as a coolant for the IP and I assume was designed for a fluid with the viscosity of diesel.

The fuel return line to the tanks gets warm but not "hot".

So generally are there specific operating temperatures for IPs? any idea where they can be accessed/

Geoff

[Urvey Member Find all posts View Profile Close Urvey]

Re: how hot is too hot?

Saw your note above. I have about 400 litres of WCO (Solid) in my shed in 20 l pails. I normally make Biodiesel from these but I have far too much now. Are you interested in using it as SVO in your vehicle?

If you are it is yours. If not someone else in this forum may want it.
I lve in the Adelaide Hills near Woodside.

Thanks for the offer Dutch Aussie but I'd prefer to stick to liquid oils for the time being. Maybe someone else here can help you.

Cheers

Bryan

[Sunnysideup Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Sunnysideup]

Re: how hot is too hot?

You may have to do some research with the manufacturer.

Good question, but a technical one beyond my current knowledge.

Jason

[Qwarla Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Qwarla]

Re: how hot is too hot?

My system uses an insulated 20 plate FPHE, HOH insulated along the enire line and an insulated looped return.

If you are worried it's getting too hot, I'd consider adding another 3 port valve to your return so that you can unloop it when the temp is high and see how much it drops by.

[Tim-HJ61 Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tim-HJ61]

Re: how hot is too hot?

I'd not be worried about the IP temperature. They are such large chunks of metal attached closely to the engine block. With coolant temperatures running at 100°C, surely the IP can handle that heat.

Where you 'may' run into problems is the glues inside the filters. I asked a couple of filter manufacturers about the temperature capacity of their fuel filters. Ryco were the only one to reply and I think said they tested their filters to 80° and had them over 100°.

The oil itself is fine at high temps and it's working temperature in a fryer is what ?180°??

Tim

[Urvey Member Find all posts View Profile Close Urvey]

Re: how hot is too hot?

Thanks for the help guys. And adam, thanks for the text about polymerisation.

What are peoples thoughts on polymerisation? How long does oil need to be held in one spot at above 95*C to polymerise? How bigger problem is it?

Qwarla, I like your idea about an extra 3 port valve, it does sound like a bit of work though. It is also asuming that the fuel leaving the IP is hotter than the coolant temp, can this be said for sure?

Cheers

Bryan

[hannahs bridge Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close hannahs bridge]

Re: how hot is too hot?

Hello Bryan,
In my humble opinion polymerisation is a issue. May I suggest that you look up "Vegetable oil as a fuel by Joe Beatty" on the web.

Malcolm.

[Urvey Member Find all posts View Profile Close Urvey]

Re: how hot is too hot?

Hello Bryan,
In my humble opinion polymerisation is a issue. May I suggest that you look up "Vegetable oil as a fuel by Joe Beatty" on the web.

Malcolm.

Thanks for the advice,
It was a great article yet I'd be lying if I said I understood everything. I do understand that polymerisation is a problem as it seems to 'clog things up' so to speak. I am unsure if there is any other problem with it.

The article however did not mention specific temperatures at which VO would polymerise in a short space of time, eg. would it polymerise in the time it would take to flow from my heat exchanger to my IP if it were at 100*C?

It seems to me that polymerisation is only really an issue in heated tanks. For polymerisation to occur it seems that VO must be held at a high temperature for a long period of time and often in the presence of metal/oxygen. Anyhow, if polymerisation did occur in the tank, wouldn't it just clog the filter and not cause any real damage?

Am I missing something?

Cheers

Bryan

[Fitian Was here Find all posts View Profile Close Fitian]

Re: how hot is too hot?

I pick up boiling oil from fryers in steel tins and by the time I take them home I notice that the oil has formed a thin layer of plastic on the side of the tins.

[W123 x 2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close W123 x 2]

Re: how hot is too hot?

Fitian, I've had this happen too.
What it is however is the oil drying out, a result just like oil based paints. Once I picked up some in my trailer and the shop had punched holes in the drum to aid the oil flow. On the trip home the oil coated the trailer and it set like paint over a few days. Couldn't pressure wash it off and eventually used oven cleaner to get it off.
Cheers, Michael

[Fitian Was here Find all posts View Profile Close Fitian]

Re: how hot is too hot?

Michael,
Could this be the same thing with heated fuel tanks?

[Tony From West Oz Vice Chairperson of WARFA Find all posts View Profile Close Tony From West Oz]

Re: how hot is too hot?

I would only recommend heating fuel tanks where the oil has a high melting point (eg Tallow, Palm or coconut oils). These high melting point oils also have a very low Iodine Value, which means that they are less prone to polymerisation.

It is not necessary to heat the tank where the oil is liquid already. If it will flow, pass it thru a FPHE before the filter and before the IP.

Regards,
Tony

[W123 x 2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close W123 x 2]

Re: how hot is too hot?

Hi Fitian,

I'm fairly sure it is a different process happening in the tanks. My trailer experience was a drying out, in full sun, no discolouration, the oil remained clear, but went hard like a plastic skin or paint.

What's happening in the tanks is a wet process and a conversion of some sort; chemical or biological. I suspect it's biological, but will know for sure in a day or two, when I receive a sample and have it analysed.

cheers, Michael