Implications of running biodiesel in older models?

[lux Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close lux]

I'm about to give it a crack, we can get it here in perth in 200l drums delivered for $240 1.20 per litre better than 1.49 which it is atm over here! I've gotta 1989 hilux ln106 2.8 turbo diesel with a safari turbo. Apart from the fuel lines what sorta consequences are to be expected running b100. like are there seals in the engine that will just **** themself or what?
cheers

[hdj80 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close hdj80]

Re: Implications of running biodiesel in older models?

It is possible that you fuel pump will start leaking as mine did. But that was caused by ULSD and not Biodiesel.
If your fuel pump has been rebuilt in the last 5 years or so it may already have vitron seals and not the old rubber seals and if that is the case you have no problems at that front.

[Tony From West Oz Vice Chairperson of WARFA Find all posts View Profile Close Tony From West Oz]

Re: Implications of running biodiesel in older models?

I'm about to give it a crack, we can get it here in perth in 200l drums delivered for $240 1.20 per litre better than 1.49 which it is atm over here! I've gotta 1989 hilux ln106 2.8 turbo diesel with a safari turbo. Apart from the fuel lines what sorta consequences are to be expected running b100. like are there seals in the engine that will just **** themself or what?
cheers

Lux,
You can make it here in Perth for around 40c/L.
Come to a WARFA meeting to see how others do it.
Tony
0428 920 881

[lux Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close lux]

Re: Implications of running biodiesel in older models?

UPDATE: Ok i've run a couple of tanks of bd100 through my 1989 2.8 turbo diesel LN106 hilux, and I love it, I prefer the bottom end power and don't really notice the loss of top end power. The car has 275,00km's on it and has not had a rebuild.

HOWEVER and heres the good news I was flipping through the reciepts I got from the previous owner, and the injector pump had been replaced so I rang the company who had done it and wallah it has the vectron seals in it!!! so There goes the only worry I had!! it was done in 2000 to so shouldn't be a problem. I've done 1000k's on the stuff but will keep ppl posted

[hdj80 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close hdj80]

Re: Implications of running biodiesel in older models?

HOWEVER and heres the good news I was flipping through the reciepts I got from the previous owner, and the injector pump had been replaced so I rang the company who had done it and wallah it has the vectron seals in it!!! so There goes the only worry I had!! it was done in 2000 to so shouldn't be a problem. I've done 1000k's on the stuff but will keep ppl posted

Excellent News.

[OzBod Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close OzBod]

Re: Implications of running biodiesel in older models?

Can anyone advise me on wether or not I can use the Gull Bio-D (80-20 mix I believe?) in my standard, unmodified '91 Hilux Surf SSR-Ltd (2.4 turbo diesel)? Do I need any mods, etc?

Many thanks for any info.

KIEREN

[Robert Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Robert]

Re: Implications of running biodiesel in older models?

Go for it. At B20, there should be hardly any issues to consider. Your Hilux will love it.

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: Implications of running biodiesel in older models?

The VAST majority of people experience no problems when switching to biodiesel.

Tilly

[Tony From West Oz Vice Chairperson of WARFA Find all posts View Profile Close Tony From West Oz]

Re: Implications of running biodiesel in older models?

Can anyone advise me on wether or not I can use the Gull Bio-D (80-20 mix I believe?) in my standard, unmodified '91 Hilux Surf SSR-Ltd (2.4 turbo diesel)? Do I need any mods, etc?

Many thanks for any info.

KIEREN

Kieren,
Welcome to the forum.
B20 should not have any effect on your engine or fuel system. There is the possibility (slim) that some of the microbes in your diesel tank may kark it and die, as they do not like biodiesel, but at 20%, I doubt it.

It is good to see Gull marketing B20 in many more than the initial 8 outlets now. Heck, they even have it at Armadale now.
I don't think that I will use it though, I prefer used cooking oil, straight!
If you want to discuss biodiesel home brewed, call me on 0428 920 881

Tony
ps,
Check out the calendar for the next meeting of the WA Renewable Fuels Association.

[OzBod Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close OzBod]

Re: Implications of running biodiesel in older models?

Thanks for the info everyone!
Well I filled up my tank with Guls Bio-D (80-20) and the difference is fantastic!
Easier to start, better economy, feels smoother with more power, and a lot less smoke!!
Not to mention its cheaper...

Just thought I'd let you know!

Cheers again...

[lux Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close lux]

Re: Implications of running biodiesel in older models?

UPDATE

I've run an entire 200l drum of bidiesel through my tank and I loved how it drove, didn't blow any smoke etc etc BUT!! My 2.8 diesel has since shat itself and now needs a complete rebuild, I can in noway know whether this was caused from running biodiesel but yeah not good from the $$$ perspective.

The rings are gone on it and it's got really bad blow by causing the crankcase pressure to be to high and blowing oil out the front crankcase seal and into the timing cover of the motor. So all in all not good!!

One theory I was thinking was that maby the rings had quite alot of petro diesel residue on them and the biodiesel has cleaned all this off and hence farked the motor but I am in noway a mechanic and this could well be very unlikely or not even possible!

[jcaley Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close jcaley]

Re: Implications of running biodiesel in older models?

This is the worst engine problem I've heard of on Biodiesel. It would be helpful if you could have it analysed by an impartial mechanical expert (who knows about the effects of biodiesel) to assess whether the BD contributed to the engine failure, or whether it was in the wrong place at the wrong time so to speak. 275,000km is not trivial, but I understand that Toyota 2.8D engines should easily reach 400,000 km. I haven't ever had it suggested that BD might cause my engine to explode.
Your theory sounds plausible. However, biodiesel is supposed to have better lubricity that petrodiesel.
Maybe the biodiesel wasn't properly washed, causing corrosion of the piston or rings
If any one else on the forum knows of a suitable expert, they could forward the message perhaps.

[Terry Syd Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Terry Syd]

Re: Implications of running biodiesel in older models?

There is no crankcase pressure on that front crankshaft seal, there's only oil pressure.

The front seal on the 2L/3L crankshafts wears into the crank journal and makes a groove. It's a common problem. You can replace the seal, but it is a good idea to put a shim behind the seal so that the new seal sits a bit further out and runs on a different part of the crankshaft.

On my old Hiace 2L I replaced the seal a couple of times. Finally, I put a 'speedy sleeve' over the journal and expanded the journal diameter and the new seal ran on a clean new surface.

I can't see that the biodiesel would have affected the rings. Unless you might have been trying to run long-life oil for a longer period between oil changes. An oil change every 5,000 kms is a good idea on a diesel anyway because of the extra pollutents that are deposited in the oil.

[hdj80 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close hdj80]

Re: Implications of running biodiesel in older models?

I'd say that this engine failure was going to happen and just happened when you started using the bio.
You maybe right that the bio cleaned the crap around the rings and has caused the failure, then again it maybe just needs the rings to bed in as there were probably that coked that there was a seal and as you said the bio has cleaned that out and now if you keep running the bio things may get better and eventually all may come good. It would be very interesting if you could run a couple of tanks through it to see if things do change.

Dunno

[Terry Syd Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Terry Syd]

Re: Implications of running biodiesel in older models?

Lux, how did you determine that the rings have recently worn out? Have you done a compression test? That would be the best test to determine if the engine is worn out.

However, if you end up with a cylinder (or two) that is down in pressure, you need to pump a bit of oil into the clyinder and take the test again. If the pressure comes up, then it is the rings (the oil seals the rings), if the pressure still remains low, then you probably have a leaky valve in the head.

If you are using the leaking front crank seal as some sort of basis to determine excessive blow-by, then that is not a valid symptom of blow-by. You just have a worn out seal.

The 3L head has a system that sets the valve clearance by the use of shims under the camshaft. Sometimes the exhaust valve seats get worn and the valve clearance (sometimes called valve lash) gets too tight. This can keep the valve open. When was the last time the valve clearance was checked? It's easy to do do with a feeler guage.

When the engine is cold; the intake valve should be .20-.30mm (.008-.012") and exhaust should be .40-.50mm (.016-.020"). Even if the exhaust valve showed a .30mm reading it should still seal, but I would worry if it was .25 or lower.