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Jeffrey S. Brooks
25th October 2011, 12:21 AM
Blending Stale Petrol with Waste Oil to Make Alternative Diesel Fuel.1
Making waste oil blend Diesel Fuel (WOBDF) by blending stale petrol at 90% with waste vegetable oil (WVO) at 10%
Blending Stale Gasoline with Waste Oil to Make Alternative Diesel Fuel.1 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEe1Q6mfCBQ)

tbird650
26th October 2011, 06:53 PM
I'm amazed. This is an unexpected result. I'd have thought the solution wouldn't have separated. Has a similar test with fresh petrol at 90% been done for direct comparison? Actually, I'd expected an engine to barely run with 10% oil.
This result tests assumptions.

Jeffrey S. Brooks
27th October 2011, 12:18 AM
Yes, tbird650, I made a sample of petrol and WVO that I left on a shelf for 2 years without it separating; and I have been blending for 5 years, so I know petrol does not separate from any waste oil I have blended with it. So, I was surprised to find that my sample of stale petrol would not blend with WVO. In fact I have worked pretty hard on it for about 2 months, and finally got it to work at about 20% with a co-solvent; however, it might have destroyed my injector pump. So watch for more videos to come on this subject.

While I would agree with you that a 90% petrol blend might not run for long in a diesel engine, stale petrol is pretty viscous with oils, so it might run straight, except for the problem that it might not blend with waste oils, but it will blend with petrol, so I assume it will blend with other petroleum distillates, such as diesel fuel, but that assumption should be tested before dumping it into the fuel tank.

Jeffrey S. Brooks
30th October 2011, 02:27 AM
It turns out my IP is fine, but there was a component in my later blends with stale petrol that was retarding ignition. Here is another video on further experiments with stale petrol:

Blending Stale Gasoline with Waste Oil to Make Alternative Diesel Fuel II
Making waste oil blend Diesel Fuel (WOBDF) by blending stale gasoline at 25% with fresh gasoline at 25% with waste vegetable oil (WVO) at 50%

http://youtu.be/wGPNKRzZbCA

Jeffrey S. Brooks
9th November 2011, 09:41 AM
Blending Stale Gasoline with Waste Oil to Make Alternative Diesel Fuel III
Making waste oil blend Diesel Fuel (WOBDF) by blending stale gasoline at 22.5%, with fresh gasoline at 22.5% with acetone at 5%, with waste vegetable oil (WVO) at 50%

http://youtu.be/y50GrNJjtFk

tillyfromparadise
23rd February 2012, 03:55 PM
Hi Jeffrey,

I have watched the videos on this thread and would like to make a few comments.

Video 1
In the first video you added 10 percent Vegetable oil to 90 percent "Stale" gasoline and put it in your settling tank. You arrived at this mix ratio because it has a similar viscosity and SG to Diesel oil.
After allowing this mixture to settle for a few days you found that most of the oil had settled to the bottom of the jar.

Because WVO has a much higher SG than Petrol that is exactly what you would expect the WVO to do.
Then, because you did not stir or agitate the contents of your settling tank to blend the contents the heavier oil layer just sat on the bottom of your settling tank and was the first to be drained off when you drained it.

I do commend you for using a viscosimeter and hydrometer while performing your tests.

I performed a similar test.
The Test
I do not have any "stale" gasoline so I just used gasoline from the mower.
I poured about 150ml gasoline into a clear glass jar.
I then put some dark WVO in a syringe and started dripping the WVO into the gasoline.
While spreading out, the gasoline drops immediately sank straight to the bottom of the glass jar.
Some of the WVO mixed with the gasoline but most of the WVO sank to the bottom of the jar and formed a layer.
There is now a layer of mostly WVO on the bottom of the glass jar.The colour of the contents of the glass jar changes from WVO to gasoline going bottom to top.

% I will just point out that while 90% gasoline and 10% WVO may have a similar SG and viscosity to #2 diesel, it will certainly not have a similar cetane rating. The low cetane of a mix of 90% gasoline and 10% veg oil will likely prevent the mix from being a good fuel for most diesels.

Jeffrey S. Brooks
24th February 2012, 03:16 AM
My hypothesis as to why I had so much trouble blending the sample of stale petrol that I had with waste vegetable oil (WVO) is:
1) petrol in the USA commonly comes with ethanol blended with it.
2) Blending ethanol with petrol requires a co-solvent
3) The most common co-solvent that will force ethanol into petrol is acetone
4) Acetone has a lower vapor pressure than ethanol
5) Therefore stale petrol is likely to have a high concentration of ethanol, and a low concentration of light hydro carbons, including the co-solvent (acetone) present in it.
Thus, I had to increase the concentration of acetone to get all of the stale petrol to blend into WVO

Blending Stale Gasoline with Waste Oil to Make Alternative Diesel Fuel IV
Making waste oil blend Diesel Fuel (WOBDF) by blending stale gasoline at 20% with fresh gasoline at 20% with acetone at 10%, with waste vegetable oil (WVO) at 50%

http://youtu.be/xyaPUY4832k

Jeffrey S. Brooks
24th February 2012, 03:27 AM
I performed a similar test

The Test
I do not have any "stale" gasoline so I just used gasoline from the mower.
I poured about 150ml gasoline into a clear glass jar.
I then put some dark WVO in a syringe and started dripping the WVO into the gasoline.
While spreading out, the gasoline drops immediately sank straight to the bottom of the glass jar.
Some of the WVO mixed with the gasoline but most of the WVO sank to the bottom of the jar and formed a layer.
There is now a layer of mostly WVO on the bottom of the glass jar.The colour of the contents of the glass jar changes from WVO to gasoline going bottom to top.

% I will just point out that while 90% gasoline and 10% WVO may have a similar SG and viscosity to #2 diesel, it will certainly not have a similar cetane rating. The low cetane of a mix of 90% gasoline and 10% veg oil will likely prevent the mix from being a good fuel for most diesels.

Tilly you have no credibility with me, so I resent even having to respond to your replies. So, without video to support your "experiment" I can only conclude that you are either incapably of conducting an experiment, or reporting your experiments objectively, as you have clearly demonstrated that you have a deep emotional investment in hijacking free dialog between blenders.

Moderator: I once again implore you. If you are at all interested in a rational dialog between blenders, then I recommend that you tell Tilly that if he ever posts another message to the blending forum that he will be banned from your forum. Otherwise there is no way a rational dialog between blenders can ever take place on this forum.

tillyfromparadise
24th February 2012, 09:56 AM
Hi Jeffrey,
My hypothesis as to why I had so much trouble blending the sample of stale petrol that I had with waste vegetable oil (WVO) is:
1) petrol in the USA commonly comes with ethanol blended with it.
2) Blending ethanol with petrol requires a co-solvent
3) The most common co-solvent that will force ethanol into petrol is acetone
Ethanol requires no co-solvent to blend with gasoline.
In fact, ethanol is usually used as the co-solvent to blend methanol with petrol.

My hypothysis as to why you had so much trouble blending the stale gasoline with the WVO is that because the WVO immediatly sank to the bottom of the container when it was added to the stale petrol and because you did not do any mechanical mixing to blend the gasoline with the WVO, the WVO just sat on the bottom of your container.



5) Therefore stale petrol is likely to have a high concentration of ethanol, and a low concentration of light hydro carbons, including the co-solvent (acetone) present in it.
Thus, I had to increase the concentration of acetone to get all of the stale petrol to blend into WVO
% Why would there be a high concentration of ethanol
?How much acetone is included in manufactured gasoline?

If this were the case then your second video which showed a blend of 25% stale gasoline, 25% fresh gasoline and 50% WVO should have worked fine.
But it showed the same problem. The WVO just fell through the petrol and formed a layer on the bottom of your mixing drum.

peter1
24th February 2012, 05:13 PM
Moderator: I once again implore you. If you are at all interested in a rational dialog between blenders, then I recommend that you tell Tilly that if he ever posts another message to the blending forum that he will be banned from your forum. Otherwise there is no way a rational dialog between blenders can ever take place on this forum.

It seems to me you get very upset the second anyone questions what you say.
A forum is for discussion, not just one persons unchallenged opinion.
I have been reading through this section and everything tilley says is based on science and it is not personal.
You constantly accuse him of trying to single handedly derail your "dialogue" but the one thing I have tried you said, worked out exactly as what Tilley described.

I think you need to make your tests and experiments more through and accept that you could be wrong on some things and others could be right.

Can I also ask why you are so obsessed with blending? It almost seem like you think that blending is the key to save the world and you're upset because not everyone is following every thing you say.
Not trying to be rude but you do seem a bit over the top with it.

smithw
25th February 2012, 08:07 AM
hi Jeff
this is a little off topic but have you ever played around with blending Polystyrene? I think they call it Styrofoam in the US. I has a go a couple of years ago but I was a bit nervous about it damaging the engine so I only made about 100 litres. the engine seemed to go just the same and it still running fine on 100 percent bio http://www.biofuelsforum.com/making_biodiesel/7742-polystyrene_diesel.html
keep up the good work, and though you and tilly don't agree on things the world needs more highly motivated and passionate people in it and this forum is richer for both of you and Tillys posts

Jeffrey S. Brooks
26th February 2012, 12:41 AM
Hi smithw, what a pleasure to deal with a rational request that is not accompanied by character assassination on this forum. Yes, I am planning on a series of experiments blending Polystyrene (Styrofoam in the US) with gasoline to turn it into diesel fuel. I am very concerned about ruining my engine, not just a set of injectors, so I am going to take it more cautiously than any of my other experiments. But, I am not finished with WMO experiments yet. When I am done, then on to Polystyrene blends.