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  • Gum on filler spout

    Hi all,

    I have not got around to a two tank conversion yet so I have been blending.

    I have been blending 90%WVO and 10%ULP (plus 30mls of white spirits to every 15lt of WVO) into the tank not before. I have noticed a build up of clearish gum at the filler neck. Car has been going fine but I want to know about this gum. Do you think it is in the tank and any idea what it is? The white spirits readily dissolved a sample of the gum I scooped up on my finger.


    Regards

    Peter<><
    PeterAC
    Senior Member
    Last edited by PeterAC; 8 December 2011, 09:10 AM. Reason: more info

  • #2
    Re: Gum on filler spout

    Some more relevant info is: I fill manually with a spout that goes past the filler neck. So the gum I assume would be residue from sloshing fuel when driving?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Gum on filler spout

      Peter,

      I think based on lots of peoples results have shown that in tank blending is not a good idea. I think JSB has done some extensive testing on the dropouts/lacquers etc that result from this - i think you might be better served blending outside the tank and allowing it to settle.

      Craig
      Holden Suburban K2500 1998 6.5L Turbo GM engine
      210,000KMs (90,000 on new crate motor)

      Currently 2 tanks in and working - 90 litre BIO tank and main tank of 160L WVO

      30 plate FPHE in Engine bay and Helton Dual coil in rear
      Walbro FRB-5 pusher pumps x 2

      50,000KM on Veg and 10,000Km on B100

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Gum on filler spout

        Originally posted by craigcurtin View Post
        Peter,

        I think based on lots of peoples results have shown that in tank blending is not a good idea. I think JSB has done some extensive testing on the dropouts/lacquers etc that result from this - i think you might be better served blending outside the tank and allowing it to settle.

        Craig
        I agree with Craig, I have found blending needs to be followed by a settling period to allow incompatible components in the blend to settle out. I have found 24 hours eliminates most of the precipitates in WVO blends. WMO blends have a lot more that needs to precipitate out, and those precipitates are nearly the same mass as the blend, so WMO blends require about 3 days of settling.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Gum on filler spout

          How might the gum be cleaned out without removing anything?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Gum on filler spout

            Most of the time petrol removes most of the blend-slop that ends up on my vehicle. If petrol does not remove it, then lacquer thinner will.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Gum on filler spout

              Just making an observation. I havenot driven the 300D as a daily lately. I am struggling to find much spare time to change much of anything therfore I am still blending intank.

              What I have noticed with the spout is the gum has thickened up around the neck and down about 60mm. From 60mm down it is clean. My plastic funnel filler neck when I fill the tank goes well past this point so no petrol poured in will clean this by direct contact. I usually put petrol mid fill of oil.

              If sloshing is causing the gum build up why does it only happen at the opening and not further down?

              I know in tank blending is not best practice and will change this eventually but I am after thoughts.

              How do people blend outside tank. ie what type of container, how do you seperate the precipitate from fuel, what do you do with the precipitate?

              For me these are important questions even though they may be obvious for others.

              Cheers

              Peter<><

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Gum on filler spout

                Actually,
                I started to see this gum/build up on the filler tube when I strted blending 2/3 biodiesel with 1/3 VO and I did the blending in the filter drum.

                This build-up is the reason I stopped blending and went back to B100.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Gum on filler spout

                  Peter,

                  To blend out of the tank your best best is to get a plastic 200 litre drum.

                  Place a take off about 300-400mm from the bottom and another take off either in the bottom or very low down in the front (and tilt the drum slightly forward)

                  Place your oil into the drum and the appropriate ratio of ULP and mix via pump etc - then allow to settle.

                  After a minimum of 24 hours (longer is better), then decant your oil that you require from the higher filler pipe - all of the bad stuff will have settled below this level.

                  You can take the stuff at the bottom out through the bottom outlet - run this back through a bunnings bag which will catch any large dropouts.

                  If you want to go the extra distance you could run it back through a 1 micron filter

                  If you are confident this does not have any water in it then put it back into your next blend i.e. back into the barrel.

                  regards
                  Craig
                  Holden Suburban K2500 1998 6.5L Turbo GM engine
                  210,000KMs (90,000 on new crate motor)

                  Currently 2 tanks in and working - 90 litre BIO tank and main tank of 160L WVO

                  30 plate FPHE in Engine bay and Helton Dual coil in rear
                  Walbro FRB-5 pusher pumps x 2

                  50,000KM on Veg and 10,000Km on B100

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Gum on filler spout

                    Thanks for the info Craig and Tilly.

                    In my 300D the pick up fuel line is on the bottom of the fuel tank, it has a strainer. At the rate the gum is depositing on the filler neck I would assume the strainer would be clogged by now but it isn't. The fuel lines on the Merc are stock and are small in diameter. Why has it not clogged up.

                    I would like to run my tank down and put in a plumber arthroscope to see what the deposits are like. Where can you rent borrow them.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Gum on filler spout

                      You can buy a USB fibre optic camera/gooseneck camera for cheap on the Internet

                      http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/USB-Bores...ht_4581wt_1396

                      Not sure why your pickup has not clogged yet - Tony is the expert on all things Merc so he may have some insight on this

                      Craig
                      craigcurtin
                      Senior Member
                      Last edited by craigcurtin; 7 January 2012, 05:06 AM.
                      Holden Suburban K2500 1998 6.5L Turbo GM engine
                      210,000KMs (90,000 on new crate motor)

                      Currently 2 tanks in and working - 90 litre BIO tank and main tank of 160L WVO

                      30 plate FPHE in Engine bay and Helton Dual coil in rear
                      Walbro FRB-5 pusher pumps x 2

                      50,000KM on Veg and 10,000Km on B100

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Gum on filler spout

                        If your fuel filters have not blocked regularly, then there is no gum in the body of the tank. I have a similar deposit on the neck of my 300D fuel tank, it does not cause me any concerns or filter blockages.

                        If you suspect the tank strainer is blocked, swap the hoses to the metal fuel lines in the engine bay. The return line goes to the bottom of the fuel tank, so swapping will put the strainer in the return line, eliminating this from the equation.

                        Regards,
                        Tony
                        Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

                        Current Vehicles in stable:
                        '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
                        '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
                        '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

                        Previous Vehicles:
                        '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
                        '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
                        '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
                        '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
                        '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
                        '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
                        '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
                        '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
                        '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

                        Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
                        Adding images and/or documents to your posts

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Gum on filler spout

                          Yes, I change my filters every 5000km. The last one I changed late, a little over 5500km and it did start to clog. If its the gum I don't know but I will monitor it. I will be changing the o rings in my delivery lines in the next couple of days so I will have a view of the top part of the IP. It will be interesting to see if there is anything there.

                          Good idea about the return line swap, I'll keep that in mind.

                          So if the gum on your filler neck is from straight veg and not a blend this suggests the deposit may not be just from from precipitate due to ULP blending.
                          PeterAC
                          Senior Member
                          Last edited by PeterAC; 7 January 2012, 10:38 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Gum on filler spout

                            Thanks Craig for the link.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Gum on filler spout

                              I have a turbo boost gauge on the fuel line going to the IP, installed in place of the ashtray. I change fuel filters if I cannot maintain a positive fuel pressure under heavy acceleration when the engine is hot. I have not needed to change the Fatmobile main fuel filter (Veggie oil) in around 5 years, or the start tank filter (CAV) in the same period. The prefilter gets checked and swapped whenever it needs it (transparent case allows me to see its condition). I then clean out the removed prefilter with a weak KOH solution in water, rinse with clean water and allow to dry in my shed until needed. I always have a spare in the car, in a resealable bag to prevent and oil from the removed filter spilling in the boot.

                              Changing fuel filters at 5000K is way too often.
                              Changing oil & oil filters at 5000K is good practice.

                              Regards,
                              Tony
                              Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

                              Current Vehicles in stable:
                              '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
                              '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
                              '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

                              Previous Vehicles:
                              '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
                              '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
                              '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
                              '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
                              '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
                              '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
                              '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
                              '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
                              '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

                              Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
                              Adding images and/or documents to your posts

                              Comment

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