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joe
9th January 2006, 02:32 PM
Hi All,

I've nearly finished the www.brisbanebiodiesel.com framework. Content and links will slowly follow. However the live chat facility is ready to go. Follow this link www.brisbanebiodiesel.com/chat.php and drop in in for a nightly chat.

Also browse around and drop me a line for anything you can see that needs to be done.

Contributors are welcome. I'm particularly interested in local information such as suppliers, prices and and stories.

Hope to talk to you soon.
Joe

dillyman
2nd February 2006, 11:22 AM
Hi Joe,

Meant to catch up with you earlier but my Network needed changes. All done now. I am getting through and the pw security is good. Is there any way we would be able to tell when others are on line? Having had a lot of family things had little time. When I go to the chat I get no response. My only experience with chat stuff is ICQ, earlier bulletin boards (going way back) and a petro diesel private bulletin postings. All act different. (should perhaps take lessons from my 13yr old G/Daughter) I am at a stage when I would like to take advice or suggestions as my whole setup is nearing completion, slight structural metal base on rostrum and fit fittings on wash tank. HEY PRESTO! I only have to pick up the Methanol for chem, all else is in stock ( I sourced KOH happily.) The KOH needs 1.4 times more than NaOH, is that correct, so will need some clarification Will probably post on the general forum until I fathom out our chat stuff. Who's a drongo - OK! I know.

Rgds

Dillyman:)

Matt
2nd February 2006, 11:57 AM
Dilly, yes use 1.4 times KOH as NaOH but also allow for purity. If its 90% pure then divide by .9 andd there you have it. This is the same as multiplying by 1.1 logically. It keeps your glycerol byproduct liquid and far mor enviromentally friendly.

Matt

joe
3rd February 2006, 12:26 AM
Hi all, I've found there is no need to convert as you work with one or the other. If your titrating with 0.1%KOH ( 1 gram of KOH per 1 litre of distilled water) then when you find out how many grams to neutralise the fatty acids you will know in KOH terms how many grams per litre to convert wvo into biodiesel. Dont think about conversions of 1.4 or what ever. All you need to settle on is how much you are going to use as your base amount. In NaOH its 3 or 5 grams depending what school or though you come from and for KOH its 5 or 7 grams depending what boat you got out of. But its unneccessary to have to sit down and convert. Its like going OK today I'm gonna drive from a to b. It just so happens that one or the other is 5/8 in the miles/kilometes conversion but there is no need to do the conversion (unless you wated to) your car either has how any K;s or how many miles you drove on the speedo.

Just to clarify the issue with (3 or 5g) and (5 or 7g). Some say that 3 grams of NaOH and 5 grams of KOH isn't enough to achieve ASTM conversion. Whats ASTM? Its the american standard on how biodiesel is converted. ASTM purists use higher amounts of reactant to ensure ever last tri/di/mono glyceride is converted and the BD washed and dried as per the ASTM specification. Others who aren't so concerned might not even titrate their oil if its from a regular supplier and may not even wash. They just settle for a week. I spoke with a guy who uses 9 grams for every batch of oil he gets from the same shop. (Thats 7 grams as the base and 2 for the titration/neutralisation). Then he lets it settle for 2 weeks. He says he run over 50k's with no probs in his late 80's Land Cruiser. He changes a sacrificial filter every 5-7000k's. Each to their own.

So like I said pick which reactant your gonna use and stick with it. It just so happens you might use 1.4 times more of KOH over NaOH but its academic.

Hope I haven't confused anyone. To summarise stick with one or the other and work out how much as a base your gonna use. 3 or 5 for Sodium Hydroxide or 5-7 grams for Potassium Hydroxide. I've used 5 and 7 grams of KOH as a base and I have had great successes with both. When you get to the upper amount you will get no conversion, so I'm of the believe that 7 as a base is probably better.

Joe

dillyman
13th February 2006, 12:55 PM
Hi Joe,

Thanks for the posting about KOH. The reason I questioned the 1.4 % increase over Sodium Hydroxide (which I agree is academic) was not for the actual titration but the Virgin Oil dose of KOH. I was reading again the Melbourne forum activity in mixing in the hot sun with what seemed like a huge dose of KOH, It helps you consider the circustamces of how one is going to proceed and the factors involved. In your mixes Joe how do you add the KOH to the Methanol. In small doses? or just steadilly add it all to the batch. Also is it possible to vent at all during the mixing as the heat build up happens, is there any bloating of the carboy that you experienced? My container is a 20 LT which only leaves about a couple of inches of air space for any expansion (I intend to mex a 20Lt batch) Would you feel that to get a translucent 25 Lt carboy would be safer? There is people who have done ity and people who haven't done it yet. "I haven't yet" Your comments and any other pointers you can give me would be appreciated., By the way my KOH is 99%. My supplier (Bless his little heart) will only stock the higher end quality ingrediants. I have asked his to source Methanol for me, he seems to do everything else. He also does all his own mixing for special purposes. One hand y guy!!!

Rgds

Dillyman

geewizztoo
13th February 2006, 01:07 PM
I just wanted to make a point about purity for both NaOH & KOH: You do not have to correct for purity (of the titration amount) if you use the same batch of caustic for the titration as in the reaction. It is self compensating.

joe
13th February 2006, 05:33 PM
Hi ,

Dilly, yeah I mix 4 litres in a 10 Litre carbaloy container. I mix in about half then the other half. Only because the scales are too much of a pain to measure 200 grams of KOH. There is about as much pressure as say a cooke bottle being opened. I dont particularly think its dangerous but I would consider mixing 20 litres in something larger than a 25 litre container. Maybe mix up to 10 litre batches. Incidently I'm sure you meant 1.4 times and not 1.4%. (huge difference)

Geewiz good point about the purity of the reactant. If your using the same reactant for titration as for mixing then as you say, it sorts itself out. I think this whole business of conversion has really been confusing people for a while now.

Keep up the questions and keep us posted on how you are going.

Joe

dillyman
26th February 2006, 10:59 AM
Hi Joe

At last able to get back to you. Thanks for the advice, I had a feeling that a 20 Liter drum to mix the methanol and KOH would be a problem,I just did not know of the extent of the exothermic reaction, and the bloating factor. Thanks for your welcome advice.(Yes, I meant 1.4)
To update I can now confirm the Methanol supplier in the Hervey Bay Area. Just off the main Maryborough to Hervey Bay Road, 2/3 kl ms from Hervey Bay proper, the address is :-

Caltex Australia Ltd
J. L. Keen
Chapel Road,
Nikenbah Phone: (07) 4128 1148

This can bring your supplier up to date for this end.
Prices: 20 Lt --$50.60. 200 Lt -- $250
Needs a couple of days notice for 200 Lt

Also have a Chem supplier in Hervey Bay. Does most of what we need Sodium and Potassium Hydroxide. Isopronal, all the gloves, Aprons sieves etc. His showroom is in the main a catering supplier for Utensils and Chem. Good bloke, does all his own mixing, Only likes to get chem as near to pure as possible - mainly all 99% I asked his to source Methanol for me, great to have everything available right in town. Sorry lost the B---- ^&^$&*()*^%^ Card; will post soonest.
All ready now ,only a couple of fittings, a day job. Treated myself with equipment, Digi scales, Digi PH meter, capillary temp dials, Stainless 300 watt Aquarium heater. I have been thinking its my birthday regularly lately. Will post some pics soon of system put together this time. and ready to go.
Just 2 things: 1. Does anyone have any plumbing fittings knowledge to tell me what to look for. The nylex garden hose type click fittings in brass (3/4") would be great to move the oils around. 2. My old HJ45 has an aluminum fuel tank. Is this a problem for Bio diesel?

Regards Guys

Dillyman

Peda
9th March 2006, 02:16 PM
Derek if the drum bloating whilst mixing methoxide is a concern, have a look at this http://www.biofuelsforum.com/showthread.php?t=59 posting in regard to a screw on cap with a tap included. Using this you could vent the pressure away via a pipe away from you.
regards
Peter

Sauman
9th March 2006, 04:39 PM
G Day Joe
Great effort on the site and the chat thingy.
Keep up the good work.....

Cheers

Sauman

joe
10th March 2006, 12:34 AM
Derek if the drum bloating whilst mixing methoxide is a concern, have a look at this http://www.biofuelsforum.com/showthread.php?t=59 posting in regard to a screw on cap with a tap included. Using this you could vent the pressure away via a pipe away from you.
regards
Peter

Hi Peter I must come see you about one of these. I need a pourer of sorts for my 20/25 litre containers, I take by the picture they allow for liquid out/air in at the same time. What is the outside diameter of the pourer. Would a conventional hose fit over it?


G Day Joe
Great effort on the site and the chat thingy.
Keep up the good work.....

Cheers

Sauman

Cheers Sauman. Thanks for the pat on the back. Shame about the chat room, its not really happening. I understand we are not all teenagers who crave a chat fix. I hope maybe a weekly chat might take off so we can exchange experiences.

Joe

Peda
10th March 2006, 10:46 AM
Joe the cap with the tap is designed to allow pouring from carboys without the "glug effect" as it lets air in through the mouth of the outlet at the same time. In other words the outlet has a divider, fluid out one side, air in the other. It wouldn't work if you fitted a 19 mm hose over the outlet without an alternative air inlet to the drum. I was suggesting this cap for the methoxide mixing only as a way to control the venting of pressure and you could fit a 19mm hose to it to vent the fumes away from you if you wanted to.
Regards
Peter