1HZ on SVO with some issues

[Axel Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Axel]

Ladies and Gents,I have finally managed to finish the conversion of my '96 HJ75 Land Cruiser to SVO. So far in about a week I have clocked up ~1000ks without any noticable loss of power, efficiency or issues... Or so I thought....
Whilst running on oil, ( and I'm fairly confident that it is a factor) I noticed some rather disturbing noises, followed by a number of jingles, and something bounced down the road behind me. I pulled over double fast, just as the engine started to stall from lack of fuel. Examining the engine side of the injection pump, there is a little cover missing, and two bolts (or their heads) missing. Once home, (other story) pulling the injection pump off, I found no obvious damage. however there is a "timer" which looks like a small piston with other bits in it as well, which appears to have moved out and pushed the cover off. Does any one know what this "timer" does? or how it works? and why is should move so violently?? I did hear a sound which to me sounded like perhaps some pinging every so often.
Has anyone else had a similar problem??
I believe my oil is hot, haven't actually measured it, but it has about 13m of heat exchanger length, all lines are insulated, and a heated tank.

Thanks for your help.
Axel

[Tony From West Oz Vice Chairperson of WARFA Find all posts View Profile Close Tony From West Oz]

Re: 1HZ on SVO with some issues

Never heard of that happening before!

Do you have access to in injector repair shop?
This may be a job for them.
Tony

[Axel Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Axel]

Re: 1HZ on SVO with some issues

Oh dear, don't like that,
Dunno, I can't see any damage, (other than the missing cover) and I can still turn the pump over ok. Its not Seized or anything. still I'd rather it didn't happen..
Axel

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: 1HZ on SVO with some issues

Any update as to what happened?

[Axel Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Axel]

Re: 1HZ on SVO with some issues

At work, right now, making up a replacement cover, as the original as bent in the problem. Spoke with a local Diesel injection mechanic yesterday who, (rather concerningly and casually) said something to the effect of " ohh yeah that little piston does touch the plate occasionally, and some times pushed it off..." didn't seem to concerned, ( think I'm more worried now, what do I do if next time I'm halfway between here and Melb. or Bris??? )

Will speak to a few others and maybe cross the fingers and try again....

Axel

[Axel Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Axel]

Re: 1HZ on SVO with some issues

A belated Merry Christmas to all, and All the Best in the New Year..
At last I have been able to repair the "missing Plate" off the injection pump. Thought I'd drop a line and add a small detail to the pond of knowledge.

To the best of my understanding the '90 1HZ motor in Toyotas has an internal vane pump drawing fuel from the tank. This pump is also supplying the injection pump housing with fuel to a pressure of >100psi @ 2500rpm. To control the advancement of injection timing to match the RPM, a spring and piston mechanism is employed. Running underneath the injection pump a piston about 22mm dia floats left and right against a spring. A preset bolt is on the left side and visible by looking down in to the engine bay. As the pressure in the IP increases the piston moves left, a via a mechanical mechanism, tweaks the time forward a faction.

So why did it come off??
Don't rightly know. is the short answer... The long you ask??

I can only think that if an air bubble or stream got into the
IP, via the fuel line, I'm guessing that a sudden variation of pressure might occur within the IP. If the piston reacts at speed, it could I guess hit the cover plate. Repeat the process many thousands of times, not impossible considering that the vane pump is probably pulsing at 2x engine speed, ( operating at 1/2 ERPM, but with 4 Vanes) any air buble that comes along could in theory be broken up in to a lot of air bubbles.

I think is is more likely to be the issue, and that the repeated "hammering" of the piston against the cover plate slowly fatigues the bolts until failure occurs.

Does this make any sense?? and is my logic true..

Axel

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: 1HZ on SVO with some issues

Would these sounds been metalic, sounding like a thin piece of metal being ground along a road for about a second, then stoping?

Guess who's landcruiser (90, 1HD-T engine) is squirting oil from a coverplate on the engine side of the injector pump.......

(except I got 20 ks from mine before this happened )

[Axel Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Axel]

Re: 1HZ on SVO with some issues

Yeah that's the feeling...

Reckon you were lucky.... enough to join the club....

did you have the sound of a "kssssst" ? no that's not slang for anything, I could hear something that sounded to me like a petrol engine pinging. Which is what I thought was going on. I was only really there when I had the power turned on, backing off would stop the sound, somethings making it go way.

Will invesigate my manual to see if your 1HDT is similar to the 1HZ.

Axel


PS hows the 1HDT go?? and on oil??

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: 1HZ on SVO with some issues

While it went (it was only about 20ks or so on oil) it went well, after a short hiccup (either air or probably the cold oil before the injector pump going in. I think I may swap the configuration around to eliminate the cold oil)

I think the block's are pretty much the same between the turbo and non turbos, but heads, pistons and most parts seem different betweent the engines. In Australia at least the turbos are direct injection, the non turbos indirect injection.

I guess my sound is something else falling off the car, as it is only for short periods of time and not accelerator dependant.

I think the non turbo has some advantages with SVO, but the 1HD-T has definaltley more grunt, but then again you pay for it in purchase price and if anything goes wrong. Well I paid for it at least, but I do a lot of long distance traveling, and was able to get a cheap sahara, so now are entertained on long trips wondering what great feature will fall off/ fail next. The christmas trip was undertaken in the trusty merc, slow and steady, after the cruiser developed this leak a few hours before we were meant to depart. It does not seem to have as much power on oil, bit this could be an air leak as I know I have had a few.

And I like the way you say "so I pulled of the injector pump". Its taking me hours!
Where did you get your seal from? was it part of a kit?

[Axel Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Axel]

Re: 1HZ on SVO with some issues

>>I guess my sound is something else falling off the car, as it is only for short periods of time and not accelerator dependant.

Now that's a bit of a concern... When my trouble occurred It definately made a different sound, which I guess was the tinkle-tinkle of bits boucing along underneath, which I was quick enough to look in the mirror and see dancing along behind. Not the most pleasant sight, I might add.




>>And I like the way you say "so I pulled of the injector pump". Its taking me hours!

It's a bit of a mongrel ain't!! I ended up removing both stays on the injection pipes, to allow me room, + battery. Make your self a couple of SST's, one length of flat bar, ~25x5mm will do nicely, with two holes and a cutout to hold the injection pump from rotating whilst you undo the big nut on the front, and a piece of angle ~25x25x3 ( or thicker) with two holes to push the injection pump out of the timing gears, Careful as this is a cone, tends to go a bit sudden.


>>Where did you get your seal from? was it part of a kit?
I cheated and grabbed a couple of 27x3mm seal outa a box at work...

Just check two other seals, there is a cheap, (~$11.50 for 1HZ from Toyota) rubber/plastic seal around the top of the IP, between the top plate cover, and the housing. Also the seal/Oring where the Accelerator arm goes in. These are common leaks I believe. If it is the top housing seal, It is fairly easy to fix. Can do it in the car. There are 4x5mm allen heads around the top, remove these plus the throttle arm, and maybe battery for access. lift the top cover, and gently remove the pin and springs from the mechanism under neath. DO NOT DROP unless you really what to pull the entire IP apart looking for them, Which you really really don't, it'll cost you ~$650++ as you might as well service it too then...

Replace the seal, rehook the springs etc, take care putting the cover down as you need to kind of slide it on to engage the Max Throttle lever (i think) of its stop. You'll know you've got it when the cover springs side ways a bit. Bolt it all done connect the bits and your done.


Then we begin the fun of trying to Time the begger, Toyota whos wisdom is generally pretty good have dropped the ball here a bit. you need a SST to measure the position of the swash plate in the IP relative to TDC, yeah like I can do that at home... after weeks of the road I now have a good 'Cruiser, but I still need to tweak the timing as it doesn't like starting cold, is running like a dog, and is low on power...


Axel

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: 1HZ on SVO with some issues

I am not sure of the noises, I guess I will fix one thing at a time. I thought they could have been brakes, and I was out of pad material, but the noises remain. I guess just at the moment its not making the noses.....

Thanks for the advice. I have one of the pullers, have the nut off. NOw the hoses.

>>
Then we begin the fun of trying to Time the begger, Toyota whos wisdom is generally pretty good have dropped the ball here a bit. you need a SST to measure the position of the swash plate in the IP relative to TDC, yeah like I can do that at home... after weeks of the road I now have a good 'Cruiser, but I still need to tweak the timing as it doesn't like starting cold, is running like a dog, and is low on power...
Axel

Look at the bright side. You have trouble doing it, I am having trouble understanding it . I am not even sure this is english, but if it is, it is contained in the service and repair manual where it says "now take this to someone who knows what they are doing" which if I come across the swash plate (I only know enough to know what one is) I will replace my spanner in my hand with a chequebook. (on tuesday )
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[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: 1HZ on SVO with some issues

Update on my engine (similar to the 1H-Z, but the turbo version.
Had injector pump repaired ($1500), thought I had got rid of the air leaks in the system (don’t ask me about CAV filters under vacuum) and retested the system. All was well. For a while.

The cover plate that Axel had issues with is what was leaking on my pump the first time, and now the second time again. The first time the piston inside (and the housing) were replaced (and i have these in the shed) and they show evidence of the piston hitting the cover plate. I have seen the insides of other Toyota pumps the same.

Upon reviewing the system, there are still air leaks there somewhere. (parts have air in them)

I can only think that if an air bubble or stream got into the
IP, via the fuel line, I'm guessing that a sudden variation of pressure might occur within the IP. If the piston reacts at speed, it could I guess hit the cover plate. Repeat the process many thousands of times, not impossible considering that the vane pump is probably pulsing at 2x engine speed, ( operating at 1/2 ERPM, but with 4 Vanes) any air bubble that comes along could in theory be broken up in to a lot of air bubbles.

I think is is more likely to be the issue, and that the repeated "hammering" of the piston against the cover plate slowly fatigues the bolts until failure occurs.

Does this make any sense?? and is my logic true..

Axel

Axel did this happen when the engine was cold, or shortly after changing over, and does your system heat the diesel also? Both times (I am sure) the damage occurred shortly after changing over, as there was some power loss from the time I changed over, whereas other times I have not suffered (appreciable) power loss.

My thoughts as to contributing factors.
1 Cold oil.
2 Air in the system.
3 Both.

My plan of attack is as follows.
Hook pump to SVO system, pull oil through it and check for air leaks.
Remove SVO system (again) and remove injector pump (again)
Fix injector pump (again).
Replace fuel filter for toyota one (and aftermarket filter, dont try and sell me a cav adaptor!) and put flat plat heat exchanger just before the engine, so diesel and veg oil goes through it. That way when the veg goes in the pump and the oil should be hot.

Any comments?

If this doesn’t fix it there may be a cheap Toyota on the market.....