single tank systems

[simonmc Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close simonmc]

Hi everyone,

I am considering a single tank system for our Prado as the current two tank diesel setup is going to be very hard (costly) to seperate. Diesel is automatically pumped into the main tank from the sub tank via a venturi type system based on the pressure differences between tanks as the fuel/air ratio changes.

Would WVO move between the tanks using this system?
What are your opnions of the single tank setup, in regard to starting and the effects on the engine?

If the oil is pre-heated (injector lines, filter, fuel line powered by a secondary battery) before cranking the engine would there be any problems? What potential damage can you do your engine using WVO only, making sure that you pre-heat the oil?

thanks for you time,
simon

[angus@aroundyoga.com Member Find all posts View Profile Close angus@aroundyoga.com]

Re: single tank systems

I recently Asked Elsbett (who have been making single tank conversion kits for a generation) and I post the question and response below.

1. Does the data bench have any examples of assembling the kit on a mercedes c250-w202 which I can use as an example.

2. The conversion you supply for the c250D is a single tank conversion. I have been warned that this will cause engine coking and reduce engine life (as compared to staring up & shutting down on diesel). Can you comment on this from your experience.

many thanks

1. yes
2. I think this is the meaning of people who never tried our kits, simply nonsense.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards


Alexander Noack
ELSBETT Technologie GmbH


Now beyond that it depends on the quality of what you put in. There are SVO cars that have run 300k purely on SVO.

Waste vegetable oil you obviously have to do some quality control yourself, so it's harder to give a definitive answer, but people seem to be able to do it successfully with single tank systems.

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: single tank systems

Simon what engine does your prado have in it? (1kd, 1KZ?) An elsbett kit may be availible for your car. I think prados were called somthing else in other coutries (I think landcruisers) so a search for the specific engine on the elsbett may be successful.

I would be wary of heating the oil only as using a one tank system. I belive it doesent matter how much you heat the oil, when the small amount goes through the injector at the tip, where heating electrically is impossible, it will be cold, and that is when the coking of the tip will occour. Otherwise you may as well put it cold in the tank, and let the burning process heat up the oil. Probably a good idea if you have a source of free engines to put into the car. otherwise not a good idea.

[simonmc Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close simonmc]

Re: single tank systems

Thanks for your response, the Prado has a 1KZ-TE engine. I will keep researching the best way to go.

Cheers,
Simon

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: single tank systems

Elsbett do a kit, so may be the way to go for a 1 tank system.

If the "pumping" is in fact fuel is drawn from one tank, and as it creates a vacum it is filled with diesel from the other tank, then chances are it will work on veg oil. If it has a pump, probably only a gear pump will work.

[Summitwarrior Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close Summitwarrior]

Re: single tank systems

I am planning on buying a Mercedes diesel and converting it to a single tank WVO system. Do ya'll have a good single tank kit that you would recommend.

[otherside532 Member Find all posts View Profile Close otherside532]

Re: single tank systems

I am planning on buying a Mercedes diesel and converting it to a single tank WVO system. Do ya'll have a good single tank kit that you would recommend.

I have to assume that "Summitwarrior" is from "The Deep South," going by the "Do ya'll etc" although, gramatically, the "'" should be between the "y" and the "a" (y'all) and not between the "a" and the first "l" as "y'all. Here's an interesting thing, i just asked my dear wife, who is also a "Deep South Redneck," who SHE would spell "Y'all" and she spells it the same as "Summitwarrior." I lived in Georgia for 11 1/2 years and in all that time never thought that "y'all" was spelled "ya'll!" Wail ah doooooo declaya!

Now to business. Summitwarrior, I have recently discovered, to my amazement, that if you mix 20% unleaded petrol (gas in The Deep South) with clean WVO, it works just like diesel in an unmodified diesel engine. See the thread here about "Kerosene Supply." I would also have thought that southern moonshine would make ANYTHING go!

Y'all curm back now hea'!

Regards
Otherside532

[otherside532 Member Find all posts View Profile Close otherside532]

Re: single tank systems

Night and day I pondered until I saw the connection between the justice of God and the statement that 'the just shall live by his faith.' Then I grasped that the justice of God is that righteousness by which through grace and sheer mercy God justifies us through faith. Thereupon I felt myself to be reborn and to have gone through open doors into paradise."
~Martin Luther~

"As soon as a man has found Christ, he begins to find others."
~Charles Spurgeon~
Hello again "Summitwarrior," forgot to include what I wanted to say about your quotations. This is probably not the forum for deep philosophical discussions, but since you initiated this, I will follow it up and we will see which, if any, of our fellow WVO experimenters wnat to contribute their few cents' worth.

I personally would like to know where you stand on the following and what scriptures you would use to support your stand:-
1) Predestination- Calvinism or Arminianism?
2) The Rapture-Pre, Mid or Post Tribulation
3) Salvation-Conditional or unconditional (Once saved, always saved)
4) Choice. How much do we have, or are we all predestined and the choices we make aren't really choices at all, we are just playing our part in the grand scheme of things?

I guess that will do for a start and I crave the indulgence and tolerance of my fellow WVOers for this raher radical new topic

Regards
Geoff

[otherside532 Member Find all posts View Profile Close otherside532]

Re: single tank systems

Hey y'all!!!!!!!! Well I guess this is not the forum for a deep philosphical discussions and rightly so, in my view at least. I see that even summitwarrior has declined to give us his views on the various topics that I raised and seems to have diappeared into cyberspace.

OK, to something serious and relevant. There is a thread here called "Kerosene supply," and I have to say that I have found it the most practical and helpful thing that I have read. I heartily recommened it t' "y'all!"

I mentioned in an earlier post here that I was running 2 vehicles on 20% petrol and 80% veggie oil, as a result of what I read on the "Kerosene Supply" thread. I am fortunate to live in "The Bay Of Islands, Nw Zealand's Winterless North and so I decided to experiment. I reduced the blend to 15% petrol/85% WVO, no problems. I then decided to live dangerously and reduce it to 10% petrol and 90% WVO. All my 3 vehicles are now running on this, as is the tow truck owned by a mechanic friend of mine. He states that his tow truck runs smoother, quieter and smokes less. He is convinced. I also have a farmer friend who owns an old Pajero which he just uses on the farm. He agreed to be the guinea pig. His Pajero is now running better than it ever did on diesel and one morning he got in, forgot to let it preheat for the customary 30 seconds, and just switched it on. It started immediately. He was amazed. He has asked me to let him have 200 litres for his 2 Pajeros and, I fancy, some will be going into the tractor. My tow truck friend is already on his 3rd 20 litre batch and talking aout a 44 gallon drum and a pump!!

The discovery that, here at least, a standard,totally unmodified diesel engine will not only run,but run better, smoother and faster, on a mixture of 10% petrol and 90% WVO is totally mind blowing.

I own and operate Paihia Taxis & Tours Limited see Paihia Transport, Airport Shuttle Service, Eco-Tours around the Bay of Islands I have 2 Toyota Hiace Vans that I use for the business and a SSangYong Mousso pick up which is my workhorse.
The Toyotas are bog standard with 70 litre tanks. The Mousso has a Veggie oil conversion kit which came with a 100 litre Veggie oil tank and the standard SSangYong 80 litre diesel tank.

Unleaded super costs, currently, NZ$1.44 per litre, diesel is NZ$0.96 per litre. I currently get about 200 litres of beautiful WVO per week total from 2 local takeaways. Consider the costings and I admit that the collection and cleaning of the WVO are costs, but mainly of my time and a few bobs worth of electricity


1) The Toyota-used for business
70 litres of diesel at NZ$0.96 per litre = NZ$67.20
7 litres of "Super" (10% of 70) at NZ$1.44 per litre = NZ$10.08
63 litres of WVO??????????
This represents a saving of NZ$57.12
I honestly am not sure how many km I get to a litre, so I used some examples. I think readers who may not have done this wil be surprised at least
Diesel
Assuming 10 km per litre, 700 km for NZ$67.20= NZ$ 0.096 per km
Assuming 7 km per litre, 490 km for NZ$67.20= NZ$ 0.137 per km
Assuming 5 km per litre, 350 km for NZ$67.20= NZ$ 0.192 per km

10% Super and 90% WVO
Assuming 10 km per litre, 700 km for NZ$10.08= NZ$ 0.0144 per km
Assuming 7 km per litre, 490 km for NZ$10.08= NZ$ 0.022 per km
Assuming 5 km per litre, 350 km for NZ$10.08= NZ$0.0288 per km
This will make a fantastic difference to the bottom line of my business. See example below
Suppose I do a round trip of 60 km and let's assume 7 km per litre
60 divided by 7 = 8.57 (litres)
Diesel-60 x 13.7 cents = NZ$8.22
10/90-60 x 2.2 cents = NZ$1.32

With the SSangyong the figures are even more mind blowing. Before learning of the "10/90" let's call it, the Mousso would warm up on diesel and then switch to 100% WVO. As I said earlier, the Mousso diesel tank holds 80 litres. It used to take about 6 km to warm up to switch to WVO. Let's use 7km per litre as in the previous example.
80 litres of diesel @ NZ$0.96 = NZ$ 76.80
7 km per litre = 560km = NZ$ 0.0137 per km
100 litres of WVO ?????????????
The 60 km trip would cost NZ$8.22 on just diesel
The Mousso, assuming it warmed up after 7 km, would then do 53km on WVO and the 60 km trip would cost NZ$0.96, the 1 litre of diesel to warm up. The thing is, of course, the longer the journey, the cheaper it is because of running on 100% WVO after warm up. Example. I recently did a round trip of around 350 km in the Mousso. Using the same assumptions, I would have done 7km on diesel and 143 km on 100% WVO.I would have done 300 km for NZ$1.92 Boggles the mind doesn't it? But wait, it gets better.
I now put thr "90/10" into the Mousso diesel tank plus the 100 litres in the veggie tank.
The revised costings are:-
8 litres of "Super" @ NZ$1.44 per litre =NZ$11.52
72 litres of WVO ???????????????
100 litres of WVO??????????
In effect, I can get 180 litres of fuel for NZ$11.52
The longer the trips, the bigger the savings.
Let's use the 60 km trip again, except in the Mousso this time.
Assuming 7 km per litre 560 km for NZ$11.52 = NZ$0.0165 per km
Assume 7km to warm up NZ$0.0165 x 7 = NZ$0.115 for a 60 km trip. The longer the trip, of course, the cheaper it gets.It would have only cost the NZ$0.115 to do the 150 km trip because once it had switched over to 100% WVO, it would have stayed on it.

I know I have rambled on a bit, i tend to do that about things in which I believe passionately. I will close with this example of the savings with a 2 tank/conversion.

I filled up the Mousso at the beginning of December. I did 3200 km and still had a quarter of a tank of diesel left when I found out about blending petrol and WVO.
OK, 3200 km on 60 litres of diesel works out at NZ$0.018 per km
As I have said earlier, I acknowledge that the WVO has a cost, but the cost pales into total insignificance when compared with the satisfaction of making my own fuel, disposing of waste responsibly, reducing CO2 emissions and also Nitrous Oxide emissions, the batter goes in the compost bin and the worms love it. Finally I get deep satisfaction,and even joy, knowing that I am taking money out of the pockets of "big oil!" I know it is a pittance and will not affect "big oil's" profits, but I am doing my bit and, hopefully, more and more people will start. I anticipate my monthly fuel bill will go down from about NZ$500.00 per month, to NZ$50.00 per month, I kid you not.