Consumption

[vegfuel Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close vegfuel]

* Note - these posts have been moved to this new thread, as they diverted from the topic of the original thread.

Hi, this is an American,

I think I registered on the wrong forum. In America they sell us Biodiesel at very few stations around the country. But it's not B100, they sell us B50, B20, B10 or B5. But how to we know that the oil companies are just making a bigger profit on pure Dino-diesel and calling it Biodiesel. The American comsumer who isn't biodiesel guru and doesn't know what to look for in a vehicle that runs on biodiesel will just fill up and think they're saving the world.

[Chris Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chris]

Re: Sydney Diesel Centre says stay away from BD

Hi, this is an American,

I think I registered on the wrong forum. In America they sell us Biodiesel at very few stations around the country. But it's not B100, they sell us B50, B20, B10 or B5. But how to we know that the oil companies are just making a bigger profit on pure Dino-diesel and calling it Biodiesel. The American comsumer who isn't biodiesel guru and doesn't know what to look for in a vehicle that runs on biodiesel will just fill up and think they're saving the world.

Hi there
There are 300 Million of you there and if half of you filled up with 2% biodiesel or renewable fuel you will not be saving the world but you will certainly be making a hell of a difference

[quesoburgesa Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close quesoburgesa]

Re: Sydney Diesel Centre says stay away from BD

Hi there
There are 300 Million of you there and if half of you filled up with 2% biodiesel or renewable fuel you will not be saving the world but you will certainly be making a hell of a difference

Very good point, Chris. I just finished watching the 2006 Earth report card, which was shown on National Geographic. The message I got from the show was pretty much what you said- if we each do what we are able to do, then collectively, we can make a big difference in relation to our impact on the planet.

If you're able to use renewable fuel/energy, then do so. If you can't, but you can plant 10 trees, then do that. Perhaps you can reduce humans' impact on the oceans by reducing your consumption of fish.

I believe that there's something each and every one of us can do to help out our planet. It might seem like a small thing, but it all adds up...

Justin

[Guest Close David]

Re: Sydney Diesel Centre says stay away from BD

Hi there
There are 300 Million of you there and if half of you filled up with 2% biodiesel or renewable fuel you will not be saving the world but you will certainly be making a hell of a difference

True enough but the first thing that pops into my head is, Given the incomprehensible quantities of fuel the Americans use every day, is there anywhere near enough bio produced ( or could be produced) for them to use substitute 2%?

I was looking at a thread on the info pop site about how much bio people make. I was quite amazed at the quantities people listed, some of which equated to 500 liters a WEEK and more! Rather than being an exception, consumption of more than 200L a week seemed to be the Norm.

I think the real key to saving the planet and stretching the worlds oil reserves and all that is to first get Countries like the US to stop quaffing fuel down like it is an endless and resource that has no effect on the enviroment.

As I see it, replacing oil in automotive use in not the problem, producing sufficient quantities of the replacement energy source to meet the rate of present oil consumption is the headache. This being the case, the first thing that has to be done is get the level of consumption to a sustainable level that other forms of renewable energy can meet on a practical scale.

[Alga Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Alga]

Re: Sydney Diesel Centre says stay away from BD

I agree with you David, but the problem we face both here, the USA and increasingly the rest of the world is they have based their economic models on constant growth, globalisation and single point control, production and distribution and not sustainability or the environment. Until we can change that nothing will ever change.

To do that we have to elect those who will provide a sustainable economy, environment and sustainable technological growth. Our compulsory preferential voting system, which no matter what you want, gives your vote to the two major parties, meaning we have no hope until if may be too late. As both parties follow the same economic insanity, it appears only revolution or economic and sociological collapse will bring about the required changes

[Guest Close Marc1]

Re: Sydney Diesel Centre says stay away from BD

Re: Sydney Diesel Centre says stay away from BD
Perhaps a bit off topic this branch of "save the planet", however, and answering some of the comments above, when considering what one can do to contribute to a more sustainable future, I agree that all I can do is what I do.
All the considerations of...we must make the Americans do this, or the Chinese and Indians that one... are most of the time media beat ups that people pick up and pass on.
Think how do you get your information. TV, Newspapers, Radio. Plus Google and conferences that have taken their information from TV, Newspapers and Radio.

Problem is that media belongs to a handful of people who's purpose in life is not to inform as one would assume, but to make money by selling advertising space. The so called "news" are just the bait for people to watch, read or listen to the adds that make money.

So if you want to fish audience what do you use for bait? Something dull and boring like good news? Or the worst possible news there is spiced with a series of beat up, exaggerations and distortions to grab people's attention?

The sky has been falling on our heads for as long as I can remember reading newspapers and that was a long time ago. The sky must be an awful long way away since it has yet to reach earth.

It has been 5 or 6 years that the media has been selling the drought as the result of the increase temperatures due to your lawnmower, the cows farts and the usual suspects. Finally someone had the sense to say that it is just a natural phenomenon that will end like any other drought has and that has nothing to do with the greenhouse effect.

The temperatures rising will certainly have an impact on our way of life however to say that it is just matter of telling the Americans the Chinese and the Indians to hold their breath is too simplistic.
If the whole planet would go instantly to B100 today the impact of that change would be from very modest to barely noticeable. Just think on the amount of fuel that is burned to produce electricity and to drive passenger jets not to mention volcanic activity, CO2 and CH4 from all hot blooded animals simply existing and you will probably be able to put your efforts of 2% biodiesel into perspective.

So what to do? Just do what you can do in order to feel at peace with yourself but forget the trenches and assaults to various imaginary foes. Eventually those foes will prove to be just another media beat up in order to sell you MacDonalds or Coca Cola.

Have a happy end of the year and the best new year ever.
Marc

[Alga Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Alga]

Re: Sydney Diesel Centre says stay away from BD

You know, within all the possibilities and probabilities, there is but one outcome, unless we live in parallel worlds. The CSIRO bloke the government has hauled out is saying just what they said 3 years ago and it appears that he is the only one to think that way. Meteorologist, have said it could be El Nino changing, but they won't know for the next few months, which was what they said last year if I remember correctly.

Considering the facts o global warming, against the hopes I feel we that within the next year, there will be no one doubting it, or they will be dead. In the last most trauma or disastrous events like war and natural disasters drought etc were localised and balanced. Now the effects are world wide, its virtually impossible for our seas to not rise quite dramatically over the next few years. The obtainable reserves of water on the planet are melting and will end up as salt water. Once the glaziers are gone from the continents, many major rivers will stop.

A good thing to do would be to make your own arrangements as we do with biofuels, but also make some other alternative arrangements, such as have a couple of small solar cells and 600 watt inverter and one small deep cycle battery. If things do go wrong, and you need to escape and survive away from the rioting hordes for a while. You will have your fuel and some storable renewable energy to help you get through. Cost, less than $300. I also have lots of rechargeable batteries and 12v chargers and a laptop. Makes for a comfortable in touch holiday.

Oops, I don't think there's many mechanic who no anything about biodiesel, I can't find one down here. The bloke that rebuilt my engine said he was happy for me to use biodiesel and keep my 18 month warranty. But I have yet to inform him I will be changing to WVO, that should freak him out.

[Guest Close Marc1]

Re: Sydney Diesel Centre says stay away from BD

You know, within all the possibilities and probabilities, there is but one outcome, unless we live in parallel worlds.

The sky is falling...

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: Sydney Diesel Centre says stay away from BD

My thoughts are the government and media are so closely related its not funny. The government needs fossil fuel taxes to keep itself afloat, and it doesnt want the people doing their own thing. Hey of they can make their own fuel, grow their own food, look after their own kids, do we really need to spend our wholes lives running around trying to accumulate plasma tvs, new cars, swimming pools and all the other consumerist crap that keeps the working plebs working, running between daycare, the job, the other job and the hour commute in the car. Hey we wont care what the TV says we need to own, we wont care if we dont know the difference between a perm and a blow wave, we wont care what the minouges, hiltons or any of the other people that we havent met are doing. Hey we wont need TV at all, and the moguls will be selling space that no one is watching. Or only the idiots. Perhaps it is already happening?

Would the media say you need to get off the couch and do something? or its all ok, there is no crisis, stay tuned, next we have "americas most stupid implants"

[Alga Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Alga]

Re: Sydney Diesel Centre says stay away from BD

“next we have "americas most stupid implants"

Don't we have that already in G.W. Bush

[Guest Close Marc1]

Re: Sydney Diesel Centre says stay away from BD

Alternative life style is available and you can make it as alternative as you want. Want to live from the farm, no electricity, drive a cart with horses, I have good news for you, you can.

No one is holding a gun to your head to watch TV, have a job and pay your mortgage. In fact you can find some councils who will happily give you land for free for your pursue of green happiness. The government may even subsidise your alternative lifestyle if you go the right way about it.
Of course we could dig in a bit on this so called alternative since the hippies of old that chose to go wild, had the advantage of not having grown up in the dark ages they seem to long to go back to and the dirt hit the fan every time the kids could no longer be home schooled. If the kids have apendeicitis or they need a root canal, they will always have to go back to those evil doctos who watch TV, get paid by Medicare who gets paid by the Governemt taxes who funds hospitals roads schools phones internet and baked beens factories. Reminds me of those lobotomised parents who "choose" not to vaccinate the kids because ..... add reason of choice. Piti that if only 10% of parents would choose not to vaccinate we would have rampant elpidemics of every desease we managed to control in the last 50 years. The reason the few get away with it is that they rely on the others to vaccinate and so live in a pocket of desease free thanks to the rest who watches TV pays taxes and mortgages nad the rest of the evil activities.

HOever, the reality is that the one that want to live back to nature have been doing so for the last 30/40 years. The rest talk about it but don't really want it.
Most want the "others" to stop from running faster than them so that their own pace may have an advantage. Of course most also sport the biggest excuse, "if everyone would do it then.......(fill in with anti value of choice)"

It's the same with most things, when you hear people describing their own way of life with contagious enthusiasm, you know you are on a winner. When you hear the dreaded words, "what the others should do is ..."
Its a sign.... RUN AWAY FAST ....

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: Sydney Diesel Centre says stay away from BD

I am reminded of the couple who ate food from their garden that they had grown themselves in Germany, and similar to the no TV lifestyle you have outlined. Which was all well and good, but afer chernobyl, the food had had a large dose of radiation with it. Thiei choices had been affected by others choices. This is where other people get the right to say what others should be doing.

Strangely enough I have no comercial television tuned in on the "idiot box" (it started as an exprement in response to a show outlining how corportaions target under 5 year olds with a positive imiage and their brands. Not because under 5's spend money, but they are more easliy manipulated, and the message sticks better in the young mind. As I did it the comment was "lets see how long that lasts" its been two years and no looking back)

I think your view of "alternitive" to "mainstream" is simplistic however. it is not a straight line, but has dimensions to it, an "back to nature" is not the opposite of "mainstream" I want to leave the planet as much the same when I leave as when I came, I dont want to contribute to global warming, but I dont want to ride on a horse. Why cant I drive a car that is electric, and have our electricity green generated? Becuase the government will not allow one particular car to be tested here, and is commitied to coal, not renewable electricty. I take my childern to the hospital, but if its breathing dificulties caused by diesel fumes, which would be reduced drastically if the government made B20 madatory (but instead chooses to tax biodiesel) I have a right (and responsibility) to say, this is what the rest of the world should be doing.

Unfortunatley the masses think they are "free" because they can choose pepsi or coke, a ford or holden, to watch football or rugby. Drinking clean water, riding a horse, or taking reasonable public transport, or going and playing in an open space are rapidly become options not supported by the governments. Why do people think they are free because of their limited choices? because the TV only shows "mainstream" as normal, and anything else as "weird". Would a current affairs show show someone complaining about no where to tie up his horse as a nutcase or having a valid point? Is the government and media working for free choice or only a limited few choices?

[Guest Close Marc1]

Re: Sydney Diesel Centre says stay away from BD

Yes yes yes, we/I have heard that many thousands of times in fact I use to preach that from the trenches in the 70ties.
The back to nature/ weirdo/ alternative/ vegetarian/ windmill charger/ Woodstock long-hair-no-one -understands-me, says the world of the grown ups has it all wrong and therefore must change to organic coffee beans, however those personal changes proposed invariably depend heavily on the world target of the criticism.
Go bush and get the dole, go alternative and drive tractors made in china, have no electricity yet have a mobile phone to call the flying doctors, drive an electric car on the roads paid for the fuel taxes. It is utopic and naive and has as only final objective our own personal satisfaction since deep down we know the difference we make is only in our mind.

However.

And before you accuse me of not understanding how small personal contributions can and do make a difference, let me repeat what I said before. All you can do is what YOU CAN DO.

What can you do?
Recycle.
Store water.
Have a grey water tank.
Use alternative fuel if possible.
Use public transport if possible.
Have a vegetable garden if possible.
Become a member of the local, state or federal government.

Nota bene, the above are all things YOU can do.
No one else but you, what the "others" do is immaterial and is no excuse.
Would the knowledge that my 4 cars have a combined 20 litres of internal combustion engines stop you from going on your push bike?
Hope not.
May be you get a cough when I drive by since can't find bio diesel in Sydney...sorry.

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: Sydney Diesel Centre says stay away from BD

Thanks for shifting this Robert.

Marc, I get the feeling we are talking differnt pictures here?

Go bush and get the dole, go alternative and drive tractors made in china, have no electricity yet have a mobile phone to call the flying doctors, drive an electric car on the roads paid for the fuel taxes. It is utopic and naive and has as only final objective our own personal satisfaction since deep down we know the difference we make is only in our mind.

I agree with you, this persons "ideal" is crap. He will "save the environment", but not contribute to the "society" or the "ecconomy" in which he wil use for the dole, heath services, and roads. (all of which have probably been paid for by fuel tax )

I dont propose this, and my current direction is less work, but still be meeting my "socicetal" and "ecconomic" requirements (less the fuel tax), , not collect the dole, pay my medicare, but also start to meet my environmental obligations.

But we were talking "big picture" and the "masses" here.

However.

And before you accuse me of not understanding how small personal contributions can and do make a difference, let me repeat what I said before. All you can do is what YOU CAN DO.

What can you do?
Recycle.
Store water.
Have a grey water tank.
Use alternative fuel if possible.
Use public transport if possible.
Have a vegetable garden if possible.
Become a member of the local, state or federal government.

Well I am doing something in all of these areas, (except using public transport, you can ride to the other side of Mount Gambier ) both the political and environmental. ( although I am not the local member unforunaltley)

My main point is these should not be contributions. I cant tell the difference between coal and wind electricity in my home. The light goes on the same, the only difference is the environment. If the howard government decided to sign the Kyoto protocol, promote green instead of coal, the average person would not know the difference. Except perhaps the coal miner who now is installing solar panels on rooves. Everyone would be contributing, not stuffing the environment and they wouldnt even know! Same with %20 ethanol blends (the govt admits only over %20 caused some problems with some older cars) why dont we have ethanol blends of %20 mandatory? well I did see a current affairs show (when I had comercial TV) saying how it "wrecked engines" etc..... once again we would all be doing something positive, and not even know it. (and if you think the average joe knows about fuel, ask him if he knows what colour it is?)

Nota bene, the above are all things YOU can do.
No one else but you, what the "others" do is immaterial and is no excuse.
Would the knowledge that my 4 cars have a combined 20 litres of internal combustion engines stop you from going on your push bike?
Hope not.
May be you get a cough when I drive by since can't find bio diesel in Sydney...sorry.

what the others are no excuse, but not immaterial!
It wont put me off the bike (hey you cant drive all 4 cars at once )
But you should be able to find biodiesel in Sydney! Of course you will use fossil fuel if you cant use biodiesel. So what can be done about it?

And an odd question Why is there a water crisis, when water is a "finite" quantity in the world, there will always be the same amount, and we flush our toilets with drinking water, but fossil fuel is too expensive, when once it is used, its gone, and one day we will run out?
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[Alga Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Alga]

Re: Consumption

From what you write Marc 1, I doubt you understand what alternative means and are just referring to it as you've been programmed to think. Sure back in the 70's there was a lot of hype about it, but no one took any notice especially the politician, and elite, who appear to be brain dead to the realities of the world.

Putting all those who approach the world from a responsible standpoint in the green hippy category, shows a lack. I started using alternative energy back in the 70's, not as a hippy, but as business property owner, simply because the economics are far superior to maintaining a rational approach and not just failed corporate bureaucratic stupidity. I run my 52 ft motor sailor, tractors, cars and backup power on biodiesel and am changing them all to WVO, as its cheaper. Our current property which we've had for almost a years is being changed over, as is the accommodation restaurant business we are establishing, to run on solar and wind. We use satellite internet and mobile phones, reduced our energy bills by thousands of dollars last year. When we have finally finished this year, we will have no energy bills until our battery banks collapse in the about 25 years time and will recover our costs in less than 5 years. We grow our own food and use aquaponics, which is very cost effective and provides all our food and fish requirements. Anybody can grow their food with aquaponics, even if you live in a flat you can do it on a small scale.

I'm a vegetarian who doesn't eat any dairies, eggs or processed foods, and at 61 am extremely fit and healthy. I've never had a cold or flu, been ill or taken medication since the time I changed my life. During those last 30 years, I have owned an operated hotels, played in bands and travelled a lot, but still never get sick, because I'm sensible enough to not eat the things that are the triggers for viral infections, circulatory, organ and heart disease. So its those who fluff their feathers and scoff at people approaching life from sensible sane point of view, who have the problem of veracity, as they say, you are what you eat and think.

But I understand the living in denial scenario, I have seen it in just about every senior bureaucrat I've ever had anything to do with, just like the Politicians and business owners that deal in unsustainable and polluting technologies. It just makes me laugh at their enslaved ignorance. We have a situation in our area where the bureaucrats are pushing for a new sewage system, based on treatment and pumping into the sea. It has been pointed out to them that there isn't enough water to operate it, as well as the ongoing cost to rate payers and the pollution of our pristine bay. So we suggested they make compulsory, waterless composting toilets of which 5 designs are approved for out area. All we got was blank stares and comments of, that won't work. But their treatment plant will only service a very small area of the council, whilst composting toilets would solve the problem for the entire area. Its called rational logic, not irrational insanity.

So I'm fully aware of the type of attitude you have to the future and hope you enjoy the changes that are coming. It would be simply to place solar cells, on every house and business in the country, with the current technology of sun balls and slither technology, its extremely cost effective. I think it would be fantastic to see miners putting up solar cells and wind generators, and building solar furnaces in local communities. But we all know its not about sustainability, but about ignorance, control and power. Single point distribution is the only way corporate monopolies and bureaucracy can maintain their control and that's their only aim. As we see by the future their approach has given our children.

By the way us hippies will have our first crop of mustard seed this year to play with and it hasn't cost us a cent except for oil for the tractor, just like everyone who has a garden can do on small scale and further reduce their costs.