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Is anyone savvy with automation/datalogging etc

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  • Is anyone savvy with automation/datalogging etc

    Hi,

    It's been on my mind for a while now about building a small processor with the ability to be run by a computer using data loggers and switching devices. Does anyone have any background in doing this kind of thing?

    Cheers, Steve.

  • #2
    Re: Is anyone savvy with automation/datalogging etc

    G'day Steve,

    Datalogging gear wont help you, it is for the collection of data only. From the sound of it you are looking to automate your setup. There are several ways you could do this, all will require the use of electric over mechanical valves (solenoid valves) and all will require human interaction between stages of processing to keep an eye on things. Your options to control the process are to use a PC which is complicated and requires the use of an external interface and a control program to be written, use a PLC (programmable logic controller) which is relatively easy to program and can be direct connected to the sensors and valves in a round-a-bout sort of way (if that makes any sense). The cost of a PLC is the limiting factor, one with enough inputs and outputs to control a bio reactor is around $400 (includes the stuff to program it with a computer, which is far easier than using the front panel control buttons to do so). The easiest (and cheapest) way is to put together a purpose built switching controller, press the switch, it does what you want, press the next button, it starts the next stage of the process.
    If you would like to explore the idea of automating the reactor PM me, I have some ideas and some circuits already on the drawing board.
    Rgds

    Adam

    "Revolution never comes with a warning!"

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    • #3
      Re: Is anyone savvy with automation/datalogging etc

      I have thought about doing that too, however the cost and time involved I didn't think was worth it for a small personal use set up. Besides making bio is a simple enough process anyhow, why over complicate it!
      Safety is a factor too as a fully automatic processor system could tend to be run unattended and could break down and cause a fire/explosion or a spill/mess. I prefer to run my processor manually and be in attendance at all times, that way if a leak or anything happens, I am right on to it, not that anything has happened yet, but I like to be safe.
      My processor has a box with switches for the heating element and the two pumps and a digital temp display and that is as far as I want to go. I wanted to keep the wiring safe and enclosed plus neat and tidy.
      My comments anyhow.
      Peter

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      • #4
        Re: Is anyone savvy with automation/datalogging etc

        There are a few people in the infopop forums who have done it sucessfully, mainly in the US. A brief look at it told me that it's far too expensive and complicated. The cost of all the solenoid controlled valves alone would put me off.

        And to do it safely (with various cut-outs and fail over devices) would require quite a lot of careful design.

        I find the intervention required for manual processing is pretty minimal anyway (not to mention enjoyable), and it is always good to do a visual inspection of the process at each stage. So to flip a switch or turn a couple of valves at the same time is not too much effort for me.

        Take a look at the Bio Pro 190 Automated Biodiesel Processor which is a very sexy piece of kit that does everything automatically. Mind you, at US$8000 it would need to!!
        Sean

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        • #5
          Re: Is anyone savvy with automation/datalogging etc

          Originally posted by zigparacingtadpole View Post
          The cost of a PLC is the limiting factor, one with enough inputs and outputs to control a bio reactor is around $400
          Are these the same micro computer things they call " stamps"?

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          • #6
            Re: Is anyone savvy with automation/datalogging etc

            David,

            In lay terms yes, in technical terms no. Work with me here.
            "Stamps" is the standard term within the electronics industry for any IC (integrated circuit) microchip that attaches using surface mount technology, whereby the chip is usually glued to the circuit board and soldered along the edges using some very trick equipment and a very steady hand. Surface mount technology differs from the older but still commonly used through hole method where the chip has legs like a spider that are poked through the board and soldered in the conventional manner with somewhat more conventional equipment. I am digressing here slightly.
            They are called stamps because well thats what they look like.
            PLC's are a type of microchip that exist for applications such as industrial control. You feed them an input, program the chip to select a course of action based on that input, depending on the course of action taken the chip will operate an output.
            PLC's are available in two types, Bare IC and ready made. The bare IC types are exactly that, a chip that you stick in a circuit board and then build the input and output circuitry around. The ready made type is the type I was referring to in the last post I made. They are a small plastic housing with everything built in. Connect the input sensors, connect the output actuators, give it a brain via a PC (or the front panel controls if you are a hardcore masochist) and the job is finished. Beats the arse out of spending hours prototyping and faultfinding your input and output circuitry, and tweaking everything to get it all working properly (and usually cheaper too). Im not a big fan of reinventing the wheel, particularly as in this instance some very large German and Japanese companies have already got it perfectly symmetrical. (Google up OMRON PLC's to see what I mean as far as the ready to roll variety is concerned)
            Probably a little more detailed than you were looking for

            The only drawback with the ready to go types is that they usually only come in 24Vdc or 240Vac, making them largely unsuitable for use as a controller for SVO vehicles without quit a bit of stuffing around.
            Rgds

            Adam

            "Revolution never comes with a warning!"

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            • #7
              Re: Is anyone savvy with automation/datalogging etc

              Originally posted by zigparacingtadpole View Post
              Probably a little more detailed than you were looking for
              Not at all Adam.
              Thanks for taking the time to spell it all out in a way that was informative and an interesting read.

              I was going by what I had seen as kits at places like Jaycar and Dick smith which didn't seem that expensive but I guess what I am thinking of is just the brain without all the sensors and extra's that make it all work.

              I think a processor that would be all just a matter of flicking switches instead of manually opening and closing valves would be a lot more pleasant to use even it if wasn't automated.

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              • #8
                Re: Is anyone savvy with automation/datalogging etc

                If you are still keen to automate the processor, have a look at the Picaxe microcontroller. The kit cost me about $75 I think for the 28 pin version, includes the microcontroller chip, prototype board, software CD, 370 page book and temperature sensor. Extra microcontroller chips are cheap, starting at $4.00 and up to $26, and there are 4 different types to choose from.
                I purchased the kit from
                MicroZed - PICAXE , in Sydney
                If you look at the kits available you will find data loggers
                already done for you.
                Software for the micro can be downloaded for free from
                PICAXE
                I have built a protoype controller for another project I have under way and found this system to be easy to get going.
                Peter

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                • #9
                  Re: Is anyone savvy with automation/datalogging etc

                  ^^^^^^ That's the ones I was thinking of!

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