PDA

View Full Version : 600L of new vege oil and 500L or waste vege oil - for a favour



Robert
25th March 2007, 02:24 PM
Now, hopefully this thread will get some activity.

I've been speaking to a guy from here (http://www.illabundavillage.com.au/). It's a local community ecovillage and I think it might be a nice place to set up some sort of a community biodiesel processor.

You know the kind? I mean the sort where a small community of people all get together, help design, scrounge parts, build and run the plant. The same community then takes turns in collecting oil, running training workshops etc.

I think it would be really great if we could set up a community/coop operation. I think that with our combined skills and expertise, as well as our contact network we could do something.

What do you all think? Does anyone like the idea?

Emporator
26th March 2007, 10:18 AM
Hello Robert!

Sounds like an excellent idea! Count me in for sure!

Robert
27th March 2007, 01:49 PM
Thanks Thomas. That's one. Anyone else? We'd need at least a few enthusiastic people for something like this to get off the ground.

Robert
27th March 2007, 01:56 PM
I've just been contacted by 2 different parties.

One of them works in film and has bought 30 20L steel containers of new vegetable oil (600L) and needs to get the oil out so that the empty cans can be used for a film set. An option would be to either swap them with empty steel containers (he said they are square), or to pour them into a few 200L drums. Sounds like a rare score :D

The other one has offered 500L of used vege oil if someone wants to make an offer (so I guess he expects something in return). He has also said that he can supply some chemicals.

Now, normally, I'd just tell them to post their own messages in the forum and see what happens, but for this one, I'm looking for some sort of favour in return.

I've been getting the feeling of late that many biodieselers are not demonstrating much community spirit, or if they are, they are doing it underground. Whilst I completely understand the reasons why most home producers are underground, I'd really like to see them being a little more community minded. I see the potential for a community project to begin (http://www.biofuelsforum.com/nsw_biodiesel_users/2547-setting_up_community_biodiesel_plant_sydney.html#p ost13362), which might give an opportunity to allow some biodiesel production to happen in a more open manner. Unfortunately, although 40 people have read the request so far only 1 has responded.

There are loads of useful things that we could all be doing to try and build something bigger than ourselves, or try to help the larger community, rather than just pretending that helping ourselves is a noble cause. So, I'd be happy to put people in contact with this oil supply, but I just need a few of you to put your hands up as being willing to help out some way in return (possibly for this project (http://www.biofuelsforum.com/nsw_biodiesel_users/2547-setting_up_community_biodiesel_plant_sydney.html#p ost13362), or perhaps to help run some biodiesel training sessions, or whatever you can think of -maybe post your suggestions).

I'd also like to see some SVO people come forward and offer their skills, I'm sure you'd also like this oil.

Who wants the oil?

David
27th March 2007, 02:09 PM
I'd be interested in the SVO and have other containers to put it in.
I'm certainly happy to help out with some advice as far as SVO and blending is concerned. If there is anything else you would like, let me know.

geewizztoo
27th March 2007, 02:27 PM
Ditto, always willing to help promote bio.

Grimwood Heating
27th March 2007, 02:32 PM
Let me know what I can do to help.
Brian

Robert
27th March 2007, 03:28 PM
Thanks Brian - Some heating elements will do nicely I'm sure, but we have to get to that point first. Appreciate your support.

Robert
27th March 2007, 03:32 PM
Thanks guys. How much could you take, all of it, or would we need to spread it around a bit? I guess we'll see what other people post in the next day or 2 and go from there.

I guess for setting up the community reactor, we'd need help welding, plumbing, designing etc, so any help in that department would be appreciated.

David
27th March 2007, 10:37 PM
I could take all the SVO because I would use that and pass on the bit of oil I have saved up atm to some of the regular recipients of my excess supplys. :)

I know Wayne has some difficulties getting what oil he needs but is always generous with what he has.

I have just welded up some fittings for a reactor and built a stand for a 400L tank so I would have no trouble helping out there. Unfortunately I have pretty much ran out of metal with that project and the places where I scrounged it from before have closed or moved so I'm not sure what I will be able to get in the future and may need some help with procuring suitable material.

What size reactor are you planning to build? I have an inside line to get old water heaters when they come up but never know when that will be or what sizes but I have managed to source a few so far. I would suggest a 250 or a 400L so unless something smaller is required, I'll put an order in for those.

As far as Oil goes, this seems like a perfect opportunity to do something I have thought of for some time.
Instead of trying to get people to donate oil or scrounge it from various places, why not approach a few places in the local area like clubs or a burger joint that would be able to provide all the oil needed from the one place? The group could take over their present oil collection services.

If the oil is being removed for free, the club or resturant could get a back end out of it with some publicity within the group by "sponsoring" the project. Put an acknowledgement in the groups newsletter or website and make them up a "Thank you" certificate to hang in their foyer or wherever.
I believe some of the bigger places have to pay to have their oil removed so maybe the group could take it away for a greatly reduced price which would go towards things which have to be bought and could also be put towards setting up multiple reactors.

To really make this group as helpful to as many people as possible, perhaps sourcing an excess supply of oil for bio making may be an idea so there is also an amount of oil available for the SVO users? There are plenty of clubs and Burger franchises around the Parramatta area so sourcing a serious supply in the local area shouldn't be a problem.

I realise this is very early days yet, but having never been involved in such a co-op before, I'm wondering how something like this works on an onging basis. Would the Bio be made available to members at a price or given away in return for contributions and if so, how does this work as a general rule?

Robert
27th March 2007, 10:50 PM
Dunno, it's a first for me too. ;)
It's all still an idea, but I'd guess that whatever group formed to make it happen would have to decide on an equitable system that benefited the people contributing as well as the wider community. The Melbourne boys have had extensive experience with this sort of thing, so perhaps when we get closer to doing something with it, we could talk to them.

pangit
28th March 2007, 04:37 PM
Robert, I was thinking about this and what I might be able to do to help. Not necessarily for the WVO payment (although that would be nice), but as a good community spirited thing, and to put our expertise and manpower to good use and pass it on to others.

One idea that occurred to me was that perhaps we could plan a group day out to build this processor. For the next Sydney day out (which I'm itching to attend having missed the last two), instead of just chewing the fat and downing a few stubbies, we could bring as many people, tools and equipment together as possible. With a bit of organising and good will, we could get the whole thing up and running in one day.

I know what you mean about the "underground" culture that our activities tend to foster. I've been guilty of it myself - taking knowledge from these forums to put them to our own personal use, then keeping quiet about it for fear of losing our WVO supply to competitors, or falling foul of the ATO.

So I think to reverse that a bit a project like this would be a great way of bringing the Sydney biofuels community together and give us a better sense of identity. It's very difficult to form relationships when sitting in front of a PC posting on forums, but much easier when meeting face to face and working together as a team.

I really like the idea of sustainable housing projects, and to be honest I think that it's the way we should all be going, rather than building ever larger McMansions on ever smaller blocks of land, that completely ignore any environmental considerations. But that's a subject for another thread!

So consider me a volunteer and let's get this thing organised!

(EDIT: perhaps I should have posted this in the other thread - or maybe they should be merged?)

Cameron
28th March 2007, 09:57 PM
I am not putting my hand up as I am too busy but I would like to throw in a very solid endorsement for the Illabunda crew. They are very good value and a lot of positive sustainability activities in that local area are likely to be focused through that developing intentional community.

Cheers,
Cameron

Cameron
28th March 2007, 10:44 PM
As they don't really have a 'proper' site at Illabunda yet like they will have once the project matures if you are looking for a venue to build the initial reactor then perhaps it could be built here at UNSW during the next Biodiesel Info Day I am planning to hold here at the end of May with the help of some student volunteers?

I can't hold it any later than end May because it would need to be all done and dusted in order to be assessable for the students.

Ray from Nat Bio is super keen as are others and we are going to try to turn it into something big. I have no interest in retaining the reactor so it could then be delivered out to the co-op and i would even be happy to help with that if necessary.

Comments? Ideas?

Cheers,
Cameron

pangit
29th March 2007, 10:13 AM
That sounds like a great idea Cameron, but I think we now need some input from the Illabunda people here.

Robert can we get them to join in this discussion?

Robert
29th March 2007, 12:24 PM
I'm still waiting to hear back from Illabunda properly. I was just trying to gather some momentum from this end first. Seems that we have a few interested people now, so when we get to the stage that we can start something, we have a team to assemble.
Illabunda are still in the masterplanning/DA stage and there will be some time before proper roads and power are in the site. However, that is not to say that some sort of transportable processor could not be built and used on the site in the interim.
Illabunda are keen on this idea and they will be getting back to me soon.

Now, as for the oil, the 600L is still up for grabs, but I've asked the guy with 500L of WVO what he wants for it and he's said around 30c/L :eek:, which seems a tad pricey. So, how about we share out the new 600L of oil at 200L each to David, Geewizztoo and Pangit? I'll PM you all with the details. I might ask the 500L of WVO guy to post up his details in the classifieds section and see if he gets any better offers (I had not thought he wanted this much for it :().

This thread is getting a little off topic now, so I'll see if I can merge the other Illabunda thread in to this one.

pangit
29th March 2007, 03:20 PM
Thanks a lot Robert, PM sent. Geewizztoo's PM box is full so I can't cc him on it too.

Emporator
29th March 2007, 07:41 PM
I don't know if there'd be a need for it, but I've got a single cylinder stationary diesel engine that could be utilised somehow. Might be a good way to test fuels or to generate back up electricity etc.

David
29th March 2007, 08:51 PM
I drew up some plans a while back for using an engine to make a self sufficent processor that would be totally portable. You could use the heat from the engine to heat up the oil and attach a pump or an alternator to take care of the mixing. It would not be hard to drive a pump and an alternator off the one engine at the same time.

If a processor were made this way, it would be perfect to put in a trailer and take to shows or picnics for demonstrations as well as being a very practicle and useful processor.

For an on location powerplant, it would be great to have one of the old Lister type engines diving a generator. I'd certainly love to have a play with one those things and there are plenty of people now running them on WVO as well as Bio.

.30C a litre for WVO????
If the guy does manage to get rid of it, I'm going into the collection business and will have as much as anyone wants for that price!!
Seems rather ironic that the price people are paying to have it TAKEN AWAY is at least 6-7C a litre. :rolleyes:

David
30th March 2007, 04:22 PM
Wayne and I were out at the Studios bright and early this morning and met Mark who was a very nice guy and quite interested in Biodiesel. As it turns out, he has a 240D back at home in New Zealand and has run that occasionally on oil. Mark certainly has an interesting Job sourcing Props for movies and we got to see an amazing array of period pieces of Australiana for an up coming movie he is preparing for.

It took a little time and enginuty to get the oil out of the tins that had the smallest pouring spouts I have ever seen and of course we were very careful not to make any mess so that added some time to the decanting process as well. I think it would be more accurate to say we did make some mess but mainly on ourselves and the rags we brought and we left no mess behind. You would think pouring some oul out of one container to another would be a simple straightforward process not to slop any about but it is something that defys all attempts no matter how slow and careful! :o

It's quite a sight to see all these drums of virtually clear oil contrasted by a few of the normal almost black WVO kind in my storage area. Will be interesting to see how the vehicle's run on it. I can't see Helga being treated to such a pure nectar again any time soon!
One thing I noted straight off is how much thinner this oil seems to be from all the WVO I have come across. I have read a lot about Diesel drivers in th UK particularly just going to the supermarket to fill up on SVO and wondered how they got away with it on un modified vehicles. I now have a much better understanding. It doesn't look like it will need nearly as much blending as normal but I will add the usual amount of thinning agent as it can't hurt to have some thiner fuel for a change, especially over winter.

Wayne and I are going to try and chase up some more drums for Mark as he is very keen to get as many Square ones as he can lay his hands on. If anyone has a stock of square tins in clean and relatively undamaged condition they want to get rid of, please let me know and I'll see what I can arrange to get them to Mark

On behalf of Wayne and myself, I'd like to thank Robert for putting this supply our way and to Mark for making it available to the forum and being so helpful as well.
Another great and positive experience from my involvement with veg fuels.

Now, has anyone worked out how big this Community processor should be so I know what to put my order with my contact in for ?
:)

Emporator
30th March 2007, 06:31 PM
Hi David,

I know exactly where you're coming from with the old Lister diesel engine. I was scouting around for one on eBay but never had any luck at the time. Instead of waiting, I bought a brand new single cylinder diesel engine instead. Not as cool as an old Lister, but still able to run on SVO/WVO or biodiesel.

That's quite a score you've got for Helga! I bet it'll purr beautifully on virgin oil.

brewette
30th March 2007, 08:46 PM
Ther idea of a joint project is good. I have a laboratory in the Hornsby area and will titrate, supply indicators, have burettes will train or perform, can make accurate sterngth sodium hydroxide, have Methanol to sell, lots of glassware including assistance to use, lab mixers etc.
I think 1000's of litres batches would be better to aim for. Then marketing?
Let me know, Brewette.

Fitian
31st March 2007, 11:07 PM
Hello fine people,

I'd like to give my thanks to Robert for organising this chance to have this clean oil. Thank you Wayne and David for shring some of this oil with me and Wayne you are too kind to bring it all the way to my place Thanks you so much mate.

Wayne I know that the idea of making bio from that oil makes your heart feel heavy and I also did not feel it is right to burn it in the car. I would have given it to the church cafe to fry chips for kids or give it to charity but Wayne and David did not have clean containers to bring it in.

I wish I can help in any way. If there is anything I can help with please let me know.

Warm thanks to you all.

Gug
1st April 2007, 10:38 PM
[quote=brewette;13493]I have a laboratory in the Hornsby area and will titrate, supply indicators, have burettes will train or perform, can make accurate sterngth sodium hydroxide, have Methanol to sell, lots of glassware including assistance to use, lab mixers etc.


Hey Brewette, if you have methanol etc for sale(weather from Hornsby or Dooral:eek: ) why not post in the classifieds section and save me the trip to Whitey's;). You could also ask Robert to add you to the Biodiesel finder as a chemical supplier.

Robert
2nd April 2007, 09:28 PM
OK, it looks like there are a few interested parties now, which is good, so we need to ramp this up a notch.

I've spoken with Jonathan @ Illabunda and he is keen to get something together, but we will have to plan it properly, then discuss it with him. It's probably best if we meet on his site one Saturday or Sunday afternoon and spend an hour or two discussing what we can do and how we will do it.

I've started a new thread for this (http://www.biofuelsforum.com/nsw_biodiesel_users/2594-illabunda_community_biodiesel_project.html), as this one has got a little off-topic now, so please post in that rather than in here.

brewette
6th April 2007, 12:09 PM
Dear Robert,
I also have a buyer who wants 500 litres BD per week.
I have the 5-600 litres used oil and can get a continuous supply of 100 L per week.
Regards
Rennie