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  • Winter blends and throw away filters.

    Hi all, I've been running my Triton for just over 2000klms on a 12% ulp 20% BD and the rest filtered SVO through a throw away el cheapo filter and then he main one. Until a couple of weeks ago, it worked fine, then the weather cooled down and I began to lose power. I changed cheapo filter, my blend to 15%ulp, 25% bio and the rest SVO and of it went for a short while but did it again. So I changed the main filter, but it made no difference. I then noticed that the cheapo filter element was collapsing inwards so blocking the fuel flow. I changed it again and it worked fine for a couple of days and has again collapsed inward.

    Now, I know the best thing to do is heat my fuel and I am in the process of fitting a FPHE, which will alleviate the problem. But I live more than 120 klms from where I can the bits to connect it all up and was wondering if someone could tell me, what would happen if I turned the cheapo around and put the fuel down the centre through the filter and out the sides. This may stop it collapsing and working until I can get the FPHE installed. Any one else had this problem, or should I just throw away the cheapo and rely on the main until the FPHE is working. Plus does anyone know what hot oil will do to the cheapo filters.

  • #2
    Re: Winter blends and throw away filters.

    I am using a pre filter "not a cheapo"



    And it does a great job and takes a lot of heat from the FPHE.

    Cheers,
    Fitian
    <><

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Winter blends and throw away filters.

      Hi Alga,

      I read your post and immediately thought to myself, “Been there, done that!”
      Firstly, I would not recommend reversing the filter flow. Once the filters clog when running in the right direction, they do collapse and in so doing so, cut off the fuel and support themselves against the pressure. I tried reversing them and just caught one as the paper expanded and tore therefore filtering nothing at all.

      The problem is likely fats clogging the filter. You need to filter these out as best as possible. I have recently started using the bag filters and they are great. Pour in the oil and they will catch all the fats and leave you with clear, clean oil that won’t block your filters. They do slow down quickly with fatty oil but I think the trick is to let them take their time and drip away till they are really fat clogged.
      This is a filter bag I used to filter some oil I had already filtered but the cooler weather had made the fats become semi solid instead of liquid.

      I had turned the bag inside out here and had already poured off at least 2L of fat from the 40L of oil I had filtered. I got some clean oil, heated it up to about 50o and then flushed the bag with it which melted away all the fats and cleaned out the bag of particles as well.
      I also clean the bags by heating up a large pot of clean oil and submersing the bag in it when also melts the fats away after a few dips and soaks.






      I believe it is worth filtering the fats in the first place if you are blending even if you heat the fuel. If you have fats in your blend, they will condense in the pump when it cools off and you will then be trying to start the car on fat which isn't’t real good for a pump like yours.


      I have seen these bags on ebay but they cost less than $8 if you buy them off the manufacturers but you may have to buy a qty. You can always split them up with some other veg oilers.

      I have just made up a heat exchanger for Helga as the second line of defense against fats blocking the filters. This was nothing more than a 1m length of ¼’ copper wrapped and soldered around a piece of 5/8” steel tube. Despite its crude construction it works perfectly and heats the oil very well. I am thinking of making up a second heater of this type just as a 6” length and putting that on the return line so the fuel in the tank is warmed to stop any missed fats accumulating in the bottom of the tanks. I notice after a good drive ( or long wait in the traffic) the tank heats up considerably so I think with a bit of help this heating may be useful. It would take a drive probably from tassie to Sydney to warm up that 300L tank I read you are installing but even so once you get down to the last 50L, the tank should get warm enough to do some good.

      I have only run about 40L of fuel through the HE into the supercheapo filter so far but it certainly hasn't’t given any problems. The fuel comes up to full coolant temp and the filter seems to handle this OK.

      If you don’t have anything to cobble a temp HE up with, if you have some spare fuel line I would try putting it somewhere like behind the radiator where the filter will get some heat to keep the fats melted out. I tried wrapping a length of fuel line around the return radiator hose but that was pretty useless because the 2 lots of rubber insulate too much and little heat gets to the oil.

      If you filter the fats out of your oil I am sure your troubles will be over but I would suggest you don’t reverse the filter.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Winter blends and throw away filters.

        G'day Fitian, could you tell me the name of you pre filter, as I'd like to get one and if I know the name, I can order it.

        David, I filter all my oil through t-shirts and then a 5 micro bag. The bag never has the sludge yours has and I still haven't washed or cleaned it after more than 500 lt of settled oil. My oil settles for months before I drain the clear oil and filter it twice. Then it sits again for weeks until I use it and I never use the bottom bit, always re filter it again. I am beginning to feel the cheapo filter doesn't handle the colder weather oil. My viscosity seems fine and the old filters have a bit of gunk in them, but after 100klms, it shouldn't have enough in them to cause them to collapse.

        I love your HE and it looks interesting for the future. I have all my fuel lines inside plastic tubing for protection and also to keep the heat when I get my HE installed back to the tank. The problem I face, is I just can't go down the road to get a bit I need, but have to wait until I get to Hobart and then may have to order it, if its not common over here.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Winter blends and throw away filters.

          Alga

          It looks like you are aware you will need to start using a different style of filter so you need to look at your options.

          Based on the same experience:
          You have waxes and solidified fats form in you filter once the car cools down so even with a heat exchanger immediately before the filter so will have a power loss until it warms up. If you do just small runs then you will not get the whole thing to warm up and any sediments will start to block up over just the small section that is actually flowing.

          I am using a Vormax with the coolant heated head and even then I would experience power loss due to the solidified fats and waxes. I got sick of replacing filters just because I couldn't get it hot enough for the oil to flow through so I decided to fix it.

          The replaceable filter for the Vormax is 75mm round and 200mm high with water block and drain and costs about $20 for a new one. I made a coolant cage out of 3/8" copper tube which consists of a ring around the bottom and top ( for coolant in and out) with holes drilled to allow for the 13 vertical tubes (150mm long) to pass the coolant. It was all silver soldered together and took about 2- 3 hours to construct. Now the filter gets really hot from top to bottom and only needs to be replaced due to the presence of undesirable sediments.

          Try going to a scrap yard and find a large diesel filter with head from a large truck and heavy machinery. Then wrap it with tube to get heat into the filter core. To silversolder the coppertube you can get a MAP gas bottle with igniter and gun on the top for a bit over $100. The MAP gas contains a mix of gases and burns hotter than an LPG powered unit.

          If you want to know how your filter handles heat then try boil it in a saucepan in the kitchen. If it passes the test then maybe you can wrap some rubber hose around the outside to warm it up but you will still need to use a heat exchanger before the unit since the heat transfer through the rubber wont be enough. The rubber would just be there to warm up the filter to allow the oil to start to flow through and hopefully introduce heat to melt the other stuff in there.

          Good luck

          Brian
          Toyota Landcruiser 80 Series 1990 VX Ltd - 12HT powered- diesel for run-in period (no longer 1HDT).
          190L vege oil LR tank and 90L diesel, Vormax, 30 plate FPHE, two automated 3-way ball valves with delay to prevent mixing on purge.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Winter blends and throw away filters.

            I do not have a heated CAV filter but I use 30 plate FPHE before the CAV and it does a great job. I have also gave Ashley and Alan a hand in converting their 300D and 240D mercedes and we used a twin coil heat exchanger before the CAV and another twin coil before the engine and also both systems work perfectly fine.

            The pre filter or in line filter is sold at MBspares MB Spares & Service, Australia's leading Mercedes-Benz website 1300 787 300 - you will be better off if you buy a few to lower the cost of postage. My advise though is to try one first. I can send you one for free to try on your car then buy it from MB Spares if you are happy with it.

            David,

            Your home made heat exchanger looks really well. Are you going to make a jacket for it to keep the heat in?

            For filter bags check item 290109088746 on ebay

            Cheers,
            Fitian
            <><

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Winter blends and throw away filters.

              Alga,
              It would seem your filtering and fats are not your problem but I had another experience that may be relevant to you.

              I was using a BD blend and also had problems with the cheap filters clogging up very quickly where they hadn't previusly and it wasn't caused by cold weather.
              The conclusion I ( and someone much smarter than I) came to was the possibility that the plugging was caused by either FFA in the unwashed Bio I was using at the time, or possibly the rather acidic WVO I was using was causing a reaction with the bio and causing the problem. I think this was suggested as converting some of the bio to FFA or some other reaction I now forget.

              I believe I read you are washing your bio but if you are not or your oil has a high titration number, you may want to look at this. As soon as I started using washed Bio, the problem dissappeared. There may be something in your oil that is causing an unknown reaction even if it has a low titration number.
              You may like to try going to 20% ULP and/or kero without the bio and see how you go.

              I topped up my tank today and noticed a lot of flakes in the bio/ulp blend tank I had the fuel mixed in and had been standing for a while. I put it in anyway because I want to see if my heated system will allow it to go through and the filter I have on the car now has been there a while ( much longer than normal since I went to the filter bags) and if it clogs it would have been due for a change anyhow.
              I will be well pleased with the fuel heating if I can get through this tank without plugging the already less than pristine filter.

              The prefilters are something Fitian and I have friendly disagreement on.
              Fitian maintains that the original type filters pass much more fuel than the disposeable type and won't cause fuel starvation. He maintains they filter well and are 3/8 rather than the 1/4" like the disposeables which he believes are too restrictive.

              I think the original type are rather corse and let too much through to the more expensive spin on filters. I have had no trouble with the disposeable type apart from when they block and crush as you have experienced. I find my car runs fine with these filters and an experiment I did a while back of taking the filter out and replacing it with a bit of straight through 3/8 pipe made no difference to the way the car ran. As such I believe these filters can supply adequate fuel for my car which would have a lot less power and therefore fuel requirement than yours.

              Fitians argument of being restrictive, especially as they are 1/4" bore certainly has merit and as such I am planning on making up a dual or even triple mounting for them so I can run 2 at a time. The idea for the triple is to have one spare that can be selected by opening a valve in case of the other two blocking up while on the road so an instant changeover can be made. As I now have a heater installed which will thin the fuel going to the filter a lot more than it was, I'll have to contemplate the possible benifits other than longer replacement intervals.
              Perhaps on your car a dual setup for better flow would be a good idea.

              Fitian,
              I actually thought my HE looks very rough but thanks for the positive comment anyway.
              Certainly the price was right as I was able to make it from what I had lying round the shed with the exception of the elbow which I went and bought for a couple of bucks and then a few days later found I did have 2 anyhow. I try to keep some of those type of fittings around because when you really need them is when the shops are either shut or out of stock.

              I am looking at putting some foam insulation around the HE and just waiting for a friend to get me a length of the split 5/8 size which I will use two pieces of put together side by side to give me the correct diameter. There is so much heat going throught he thing I doubt an losses would matter but it will look a lot more professional .

              As Different as it is to your Flate plates and coiled HE's, the thing works better than I expected. I cannot hold my finger on the first turn of the fuel line as it heats so well let alone at the end of the coils. I wasn't actually intending or nessacarily wanting the thing to bring the oil up to full coolant temp as I am using blends but it does get the oil up to full heat with no problems.

              Those filter bags look an excellent buy. I have seen them advertised at more than that price for just one bag and I think they were the smaller ones as well.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Winter blends and throw away filters.

                David, I will try 20% ULP and no bio and see what happens. I've taken out the cheapo andwill see how that goes for a few days first. I agree with the bio maybe reacting with the ULP and/ or oil. I dry my bio by putting it in the sun and I have also used bubble dry. We just can't afford the amount of water for water washing. Once the still is built I hope most of my problems disappear as I intend to recover the meth from both the bio and glys and that may just dry and clean it out. We shall see, thanks for the tips though, I appreciate them a lot.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Winter blends and throw away filters.

                  David,

                  You know I always respect to agree and diagree.
                  The pre filter from MBspares is originally used in mercs so I have not added nothing new. I only know it would work because I used it when I tried ULP+WVO and Bio+WVO blends for start up and shut down. This filter also has taken heat from two coils and it is the closest thing to the engine too.

                  Eve though your HE looks rough as you say but to me if it does the job then it is rough and cool . Foam jacket will be a great idea to keep the heat. I saw different styles of foam tubes at Clark Rubber. It is worth it to give them a visit.

                  I have never thought that Bio will react to ULP or WVO. I have used them all and never had any trouble. Does this cheapo filter contain any glue?
                  Fitian
                  <><

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Winter blends and throw away filters.

                    Hi Alga,

                    When I had the filter blocking problem I was only running a Bio/Wvo blend with no unleaded. When I ran the same oil with just unleaded, it worked fine as well. As such I would suggest your Bio is more likely the culprit especially as it is unwashed the same as I was using. I had used washed bio previously with no trouble and the washed bio I have used since has been fine as well.

                    I also think that perhaps the heat the blend picked up as it was circulated around the fuel system may have contributed to the problem as I could not re-create it in sample jars. I remember runing just 8L of blend on a new inline filter and claging it and that was after I had previously removed that batch and filtered it to 5 Mic. The inline filter would quickly get a thick looking coating of very black material which blocked them in short order.
                    I subsequently washed and dried the blend and it went through without any more problems.
                    I use 25L plastic drums for a fuel tank so it wasn't the bio cleaning out any Diesel residue. The other thing I noticed with unwashed bio is that although I did see the filters go black pretty quick when I used it straight, I didn't have the filter problem.

                    This problem seems to be a chemical reaction so I haven't got a clue if you could eliminate the problem by physical means such as settling or centrifuging. The only thing I could suggest that someone more knowledgeable in the chemistry of Bio may like to give the thumbs up or down to, would be to titrate your WVO and bring it back to neutral to stop any acidic reaction with the Bio. Don't know if this is at all a valid suggestion, someone else might.

                    Please let us know how you go as we may have discovered something people should avoid and prevent some hassels.

                    Fitian,
                    The filters you prefer are OEM from Mercedes so they have to be a good design. With the amount of miles you do, anything you reccomend has to be practical and stand up to heavy use.

                    I have cut a few of the cheapo filters up and they seem to contain something which more resembles a hot melt plastic than a glue. I haven't had any problems with them coming apart with bio, ulp, Kero or a blend of any of them. You may have something with the glue though as it is likely there are many different manufacturers of these filters and as such they are not all likely to be made the same. While the filters I have used may be impervious to bio, the filters other people are getting may not.
                    It could be worth while if people do have any problems to cut an old filter open and check it.

                    Our mutual Friend, The Master Guru of all things Bio Diesel, suggested to me that part of the problem with the bio and the WVO may have been due to the High acid levels ( titration) of the oil I usually get. As I believe your oil has a much lower titration number, perhaps the effect with your oil would be much less pronounced or non existant.

                    With the foam for the HE, I have a friend that is the warehouse manager for a company that makes the stuff and have placed my order with him. He is going to aquire me some stuff which is pre-split and has glue on the edge. I have worked out the radius of my HE and will join two pieces of this together to give me the best fit.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Winter blends and throw away filters.

                      think this is my first post, hi out there folks!
                      not a chemist but like the subject.
                      When I had the filter blocking problem I was only running a Bio/Wvo blend with no unleaded. When I ran the same oil with just unleaded, it worked fine as well. As such I would suggest your Bio is more likely the culprit especially as it is unwashed the same as I was using. I had used washed bio previously with no trouble and the washed bio I have used since has been fine as well.

                      I also think that perhaps the heat the blend picked up as it was circulated around the fuel system may have contributed to the problem as I could not re-create it in sample jars. I remember runing just 8L of blend on a new inline filter and claging it and that was after I had previously removed that batch and filtered it to 5 Mic. The inline filter would quickly get a thick looking coating of very black material which blocked them in short order.
                      Just had a thought. If you think this true it maybe be what is happening in your 8L example. Bring to the temperature (filter temp) in a jar the mixture of bio/wvo and stir vigorously (pumped through filter). If this causes the bio to react with wvo making them gluey as seen in the filter. It is possible that the non-washed bio still contains catalyst agent and is causing wvo transformation.

                      I'm interested in your finds.

                      mot.
                      motsah
                      Biofuels Forum Newbie
                      Last edited by motsah; 26 April 2007, 12:46 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Winter blends and throw away filters.

                        Thanks for every ones input, its helped me work this out. But it wasn't my bio, nor the cold, nor blends. But my fuel system. I made samples of bio, bio and ULP, bio and SVO, ULP an SVO, ULP and bio and various mixtures. Put some in the fridge, some in a warm room and some in my bio shed. Each day I've shook them all. Nothing happened, they all remained clear and their was no build up separation or slime.

                        What seems to have happened was I had been running my ute on B100 for a few months and had the usual change of throw away and main filters as the crud came out of the system, then it was fine. But then I changed over to blends and it seemed fine for the rest of summer. But since cooling down the blend seems to have reacted within the system and cleaned out lots more crud. First I was having to change the throw aways after less than 100klms. After 5 filters had clogged and collapsed, I got over 400klm and now my throw aways filters have virtually no crud in them and the oil is clear. I increased my ULP to just over 15% and starting in the early mornings takes two glow plug heatings and the ute starts after a couple of turns, If I don't heat twice, it is very hard to start.

                        Now she just purrs along the highway with full power, But I have noticed that I've lost a bit of fuel economy using blends, but it's still way cheaper than just B100. I was just about to install a FPHE when my gear box dropped its guts after being rebuilt a month ago, very boring. So the FPHE will have to wait until I install the 300 lt tank. No problems seem to have come up with the rotary IP.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Winter blends and throw away filters.

                          Hi Alga,

                          The HE shouldn't take long to install and I would certainly reccomend it.

                          Since fitting mine, I have noticed a huge improvement in performance not only just after start up when I thought the thing would make the biggest difference, but even once the engine is fully and completely warmed up.
                          I have now run a few different blends with it and all seem to work with the same sort of improvement.

                          Even after removing the fuel tank from my car, the amount of crap that came out of the fuel system was substantial. I would reccomend to anyone going to any sort of veg fuel to remove their fuel tank and have it cleaned.
                          I believe the effort would be more than repaid by avoiding having to change heaps of filters and the potential hassel and inconvienence of doing so.

                          It seems to me the time has to be spent on cleaning the system one way or the other, to my way of thinking, much better to do it at a time and place of your chosing in one go than by the side of the road 10 or 20 times when it is least convinent.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Winter blends and throw away filters.

                            I concur David, I am on my 9th disposable filter this time around. In future will remove the tank and clean it before using WVO SVO or biodiesel. Mind you I can now change a filter in the dark in 2 minutes flat!!

                            Michael

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Winter blends and throw away filters.

                              Michael.

                              I can not only do it in 2 minutes, I can do it without a screwdriver or any other tool!

                              I saw some hose clamps at bunnings the other day that have tabs on them that allow you to do them up with your fingers. I was a little apprehensive if they would be able to be done up tight enough to stop the dreaded air leaks but I decided to give them a go anyway.

                              Rather than not get the things tight enough, I think I over tightened them as today, I noticed the fuel hose was kind of oozing out between the slots in the clamp band. I have had these things on about 2 weeks now and not had any problems with leaks at all.
                              They cost about a buck and a half and make a simple job that much simpler and quicker.

                              For roadside changes, you don't need to worry about finding a screw driver or sticking the thing through your hand when the thing slips because you werent paying attention when you were in a hurry.

                              Comment

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