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  • Which hose?

    G'day bio users

    I've searched and asked and phoned and keep coming to dead ends with finding a suitable biodiesel compatible hose that will last for more than a couple of years.
    Nylon? Silicon? Teflon? Viton?.......What, where, who and how much?

    Many of you may not agree that this is an issue as you haven't had fuel line failure. The hose to the C.A.V. teared apart by gently moving it a couple of inches to fit an inline filter. I know that it is possible that this hose is 28 years old but whatever it is made from has turned to goo.

    I mean, yes it is great stuff but people need to be warned of the worst case scenarios with bio. It's not doing the reputation of bio any good by simply suggesting that people use it and deal with any problems later.
    I say to people "Use it, it's great, but be aware that you need to ensure that the fuel lines and pump seals are compatible." Prevention being the best cure, I am confused by the lack of care by certain users and suppliers. When I start making my own bio I'll be less tense about it, but I am paying $1.30/L for it and this is more that dinodiesel! Not much left over for the cost of replacement lines, filters, C.A.V. glass, damaged paintwork etc. Sometimes I wonder if it is all worth it.

    As the supply and return lines to the tank are weeping and I want to rig up the C.A.V. again, I'm greatly in need of suitable hosing.

    Matt has ordered some small diameter Viton hose from the U.S. that is a reasonable price, however the larger diameter hose which I need for the supply/return to tank is much too expensive for the amount required.

    So has anyone found a good value hose that has a proven long-term resistance to bio and is currently available in Australia?

    Thanks

    -Andy

  • #2
    Re: Which hose?

    Andy, viton hose should be here today or tomorrow, happy days.Now for the larger size hose what size are we taling about? A nylon lined hose will do the trick, I know!Matt
    Biodiesel Bandit

    Landcruiser '98 80 series B100.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Which hose?

      There is another post on this forum about hoses.
      Try Blackwoods. The type of hose you need is ORTAC.
      Cost is somewhere around $8.00/metre.

      How long it will last, I am not sure but it is said to be fairly good.

      Product Disctripion:
      Application: Ortac is Goodyear's most popular premium quality multipurpose hose for industrial applications. It is suitable for use for transferring air, water, petroleum oils, lubricating oils, petrol, animal fats, alkalis, salt solutions, kerosene, paraffin, sprays and many chemicals. Its carboxilated nitrile cover offers superior abrasion resistance compared to standard multi-purpose hoses. Nonconductive at 1000 volts D.C. -29°C to 100°C. Tube: Chemigum R synthetic rubber, RMA Class A (high oil resistance) Reinforcement: Spiral synthetic yarn. 2" is braided. Cover: Red Carbryn R synthetic rubber, RMA Class A (high oil resistance) Superior Abrasion Resistance.


      If time permitts I will be obtaining some this week.
      Qwarla
      Senior Member
      Last edited by Qwarla; 25 June 2007, 10:28 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Which hose?

        I use nylon air hose for long runs of fuel hose, but it is too stiff for use in the negine bay, and not compressible for use on hose barbs, so I use short lengths of nitrile rubber fuel hose for connecting it to the various points.

        For the inter- injector return hoses, I have used food grade clear tubing for the past 12 months with no leaks or degradation noticed, but then, I use veggie oil for most of my running, so that may reduce the impact of my biodiesel fuel on them.

        Tony
        Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

        Current Vehicles in stable:
        '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
        '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
        '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

        Previous Vehicles:
        '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
        '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
        '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
        '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
        '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
        '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
        '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
        '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
        '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

        Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
        Adding images and/or documents to your posts

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Which hose?

          Thanks to all who replied. Well and truly back on track now.
          -Andy

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Which hose?

            Glad to hear it and the viton fuel line has arrived!

            Matt
            Biodiesel Bandit

            Landcruiser '98 80 series B100.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Which hose?

              Alright then! I'll be around to pick up the Viton hose next Sunday if you're there Matt.
              As far as the rest of the fuel lines, it's all pretty good and I didn't need as much hose as I'd first imagined.
              The lines that span the length of the car a foot from the tank to a foot from the C.A.V. filter are made of clear Nylon and it was mainly 2 ft of 5/16" hose that was required to get the C.A.V. set up again.
              I used some fuel hose I'd bought earlier for some hydraulic repairs which is probably Nitrile. When I have the money and time I'd like to try some Ortac hose and perhaps a little stainless braided teflon for the engine bay.
              -Andy

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Which hose?

                No trouble I will be there and we will have our renewable fuels setup to show how to save the planet.

                Fitted the 1/8th inch today, a bit less than two feet is required and I have two feet plus left and 4 foot of the 4mm ID, 6mm ID left. I have two other 307 Pugs to do so you get first dibs and what is left I will use.

                Very happy to hear you got some nylon, in my mind its probably better since its transparent and seeing what goes on is great.

                Looking froward to catching up!
                Matt
                Biodiesel Bandit

                Landcruiser '98 80 series B100.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Which hose?

                  I am also concerned about this and am not prepared as suggested on Journey to the Future to just wait and hope and deal with the failure once it's happened. Motoring is a convenience not a pleasure and a break down is a real nuisance.
                  I am trying to source resistant hoses and cannot find any in Australia. I think I will follow Matt's example and order viton from the USA.
                  However I am also concerned about the other 'rubber' components like any diaphragms and o rings in the filters injector body and fuel pumps.
                  I would be interested to hear any opinions of the durability of these items.
                  I drive a table top 1999 LandCruiser ute and also use the fuel in various farm tractors, but I am more cautious here as they are older and I really can't afford for them to stop working.
                  Can anyone tell me what length of line I will need for a Toyota 1HZ engine.
                  Thanks Tim

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Which hose?

                    Viton Hose is available in Australia
                    there are also alternative names for it depending on the manufacturer
                    Viton is a Du pont trade name
                    Other Trade names, Dai-El*, Fluorel*, Technoflon*, Viton®.

                    one place that stocks viton is Fluid Handling Solutions but most major hose shops will have it. I use my local farming store and they have no trouble getting it (in WA) but Im not sure who they buy through.

                    Viton O rings are available most anywhere Transeals has seals and o rings for most pumps
                    CBC for other sizes and types

                    Regards
                    John

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Which hose?

                      Originally posted by Qwarla View Post
                      There is another post on this forum about hoses.
                      Try Blackwoods. The type of hose you need is ORTAC.
                      Cost is somewhere around $8.00/metre.

                      How long it will last, I am not sure but it is said to be fairly good.

                      Product Disctripion:
                      Application: Ortac is Goodyear's most popular premium quality multipurpose hose for industrial applications. It is suitable for use for transferring air, water, petroleum oils, lubricating oils, petrol, animal fats, alkalis, salt solutions, kerosene, paraffin, sprays and many chemicals. Its carboxilated nitrile cover offers superior abrasion resistance compared to standard multi-purpose hoses. Nonconductive at 1000 volts D.C. -29°C to 100°C. Tube: Chemigum R synthetic rubber, RMA Class A (high oil resistance) Reinforcement: Spiral synthetic yarn. 2" is braided. Cover: Red Carbryn R synthetic rubber, RMA Class A (high oil resistance) Superior Abrasion Resistance.


                      If time permitts I will be obtaining some this week.
                      Correct. I've been using it for a year now with no sign of any deterioration. Nor would you expect it - altho bio is a more aggressive solvent than dino, it is, after all, only an ester, and easily fits into the "most chemicals" category as in the specs of this product.

                      For a 1HZ motor you will need two diameters. I forget what they are, but I bought a 5 metre length of each and finished up with a fair bit left over. I think I paid $6/metre or thereabouts (can't remember). I'll measure up the diameters later and post.

                      I'd be curious to know how much the Viton is per metre.
                      Doctor Mark
                      Member
                      Last edited by Doctor Mark; 27 June 2008, 06:51 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Which hose?

                        The few times I have bought fuel line to use with biodiesel

                        I just bought the fuel line that was available at the local Auto Warehouse cut off his big roll of fuel line hanging on the wall and have had no problems

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Which hose?

                          Originally posted by tillyfromparadise View Post
                          The few times I have bought fuel line to use with biodiesel

                          I just bought the fuel line that was available at the local Auto Warehouse cut off his big roll of fuel line hanging on the wall and have had no problems
                          Yes - to be honest it's a bit of a case of overkill to replace it at all. Ordinary fuel line can handle the aromatics in petrol, and I doubt that the methyl ester is any more aggressive.

                          The worst I have seen is the rubber weeping and becoming hard - but it does that with age anyway. I went for the Ortac just so I wouldn't be fiddling around with fuel lines in the middle of nowhere.
                          I drive a table top 1999 LandCruiser ute and also use the fuel in various farm tractors, but I am more cautious here as they are older and I really can't afford for them to stop working.
                          Can anyone tell me what length of line I will need for a Toyota 1HZ engine.
                          Toyota replaced their IP seals in 1996 with a different type of rubber to handle low sulfur diesel. They will tell you it's Viton, but it isn't. I'd imagine it'd be more resilient to Bio than the earlier stuff (which wasn't).

                          Fuel lines for a 1HZ - you'll need two diameters 3/8' and 1/4" (internal diameters). It's mostly the 3/8, with the 1/4 back towards the tank. I bough 5m of each just so I'd have plenty spare, but there's hardly any 1/4" so I'd say 3m is heaps.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Which hose?

                            Fujrther to my earlier post in this thread I have ditched the ORTAC as it was starting to sweat biodiesel. I don't know if there are different grades of the stuff but mine was not very good.

                            Searching for a better solution I tried Oil Cooler Hose and that works good. Also the ordinary supa creaps fuel hose seems to work, but I found it a hit and miss affair. Buy one lot and it's good but the next lot is crap.

                            Then I noticed there is a SAE number on the hose. The stuff that's crap is SAE 30R6. Sweats in about 2 - 3 weeks or less.

                            The good stuff is marked SAE 30R7. Had some of that stuff with bio in it for about 10 weeks now without any signs of sweating.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Which hose?

                              Gday
                              I tried the gates SAE 30R7 and it started swelling and became mushy in a few weeks the stuff that is as good as viton is SAE 30R9 fuel injection hose its meant to be 100% biodiesel compatible but i havnt been able to find any in oz as yet.
                              Thanks caveman
                              sigpic

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