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  • degumming canola oil

    Howdy, I've heard that you have to degum canola oil before using it as SVO. Can anyone tell me what is involved, as we're looking at getting a press and crushing some of our canola to give it a go.

  • #2
    Re: degumming canola oil

    I don’t know apart from "Degumming treatment commonly uses hot water or steam plus phosphoric acid, citric acid, or other acidic materials." (http://www.wsu.edu/~gmhyde/433_web_pages/433Oil-web-pages/Rapeseed1/Rape&Canola_oils_1.html)
    Which is a bit like describing making a nuclear device as "dig up uranium and put in in a missile.


    But if you were after an oil press, Steve at http://www.aqknowledge.com/ (use the e-mail us link, I wont post his e-mail here due to spammers) is importing screw presses and small diesel engines to help get farmers to grow their own fuel.
    cheers<BR>Chris.<BR>1990 landcruiser 80, 1HD-T two tank, copper pipe HE+ 20 plate FPHE, toyota solenoids and filters. 1978 300D, elsbett one tank system.<BR>

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: degumming canola oil

      Hi All
      Why would you degum canola oil? Are you pressing it yourself? To the best of my knowledge all of the canola oil sold in this country is RDB That stands for refined deodorised bleached That really means it is already degummed So unless you are pressing the stuff yourself from seed there is no need to degum it Even than it seems that the Europeans are not concerned about degumming the stuff it appears that they use it straight from the screw press to a filter and into the biodiesel reactor Now if you are buying it as new oil in 5 tonne lots it will cost you about $1.30 a litre plus freight which is a saving if you are to use it as SVO if you are to convert it to biodiesel consider that you will loose about 20% of it as glycerin which will bring your cost up to 1.55 per litre plus your cost of methanol as well as your catalyst and a bit of energy to produce the stuff So consider the above
      Cheers
      Chris
      Cheers
      Chris
      Never give up :)

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: degumming canola oil

        Originally posted by Chris
        Hi All
        Why would you degum canola oil? Are you pressing it yourself?
        That is what he said.
        To the best of my knowledge all of the canola oil sold in this country is RDB That stands for refined deodorised bleached That really means it is already degummed So unless you are pressing the stuff yourself from seed there is no need to degum it Even than it seems that the Europeans are not concerned about degumming the stuff it appears that they use it straight from the screw press to a filter and into the biodiesel reactor Now if you are buying it as new oil in 5 tonne lots it will cost you about $1.30 a litre plus freight which is a saving if you are to use it as SVO if you are to convert it to biodiesel consider that you will loose about 20% of it as glycerin which will bring your cost up to 1.55 per litre plus your cost of methanol as well as your catalyst and a bit of energy to produce the stuff So consider the above
        Cheers
        Chris
        Chris, I believe that the question was asked in relation to using the oil as fuel, not as biodiesel feedstock. Please re-read the first post, Farmer wanted to buy a press to crush his own crop.

        Farmer,
        It would be difficult to achieve the pressing efficiency of dedicated oilseed crushing plants. It may be worth your while having them press your oil seeds and give you back the seed cake and degummed oil. For each 1% of oil left in the meal (cold pressing can extract around 90% of the oil, solvent extraction 100%) is costing you fuel and money. In West Oz, there are only 2 commercial exrtraction plants, both cold press the seed. Even so, the oil can be had for $0.78 per litre for 20KL purchases, or $1.00 per litre for 200L containers (plus freight).
        I know of one farmer who has purchased the oilseed presses, degumming gear and motors, grain handling equipment and a diesel generator to run it all. He is not convinced that he can compete with transporting the seed to the commercial presses, even though they are going to leave ~10% of the oil behind, but he plans to give it his best shot for the environment.
        Tony
        Tony From West Oz
        Vice Chairperson of WARFA
        Last edited by Tony From West Oz; 10 July 2006, 10:45 PM.
        Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

        Current Vehicles in stable:
        '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
        '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
        '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

        Previous Vehicles:
        '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
        '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
        '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
        '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
        '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
        '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
        '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
        '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
        '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

        Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
        Adding images and/or documents to your posts

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        • #5
          Re: degumming canola oil

          Tony,
          Did this thread actually get to an answer about how to degum oil.
          I am interested in using new cold pressed Canola oil as a fuel. The current drought not withstanding, the numbers look border line, but if the peak oil people are correct, and I believe they probably, the numbers will get a lot better.
          I am the the person quoted earlier as being able to supply presses and I am building (and will be demonstrating) a closed system whereby farmers can grow & crush canola, then run vehicles or stationary motors on the oil.
          While new vege oil cannot compete with WVO on price, there are not enough Fish shops to power the nation and take on the Oil Companies.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: degumming canola oil

            Steve, I believe that the link in post #2 of thisthread had a link, but I have not followed that link. I have seen degumming using hot water / steam and centrifuging method, but do not have any furthewr information.
            Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

            Current Vehicles in stable:
            '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
            '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
            '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

            Previous Vehicles:
            '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
            '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
            '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
            '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
            '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
            '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
            '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
            '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
            '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

            Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
            Adding images and/or documents to your posts

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: degumming canola oil

              Hello everyone.

              As to the Cold pressing of Canolo seed for Oil. The company that I work for just put in a Insta-Pro pressing system. We are getting about 95% of the oil out of the seed. The little bit of the oil left in the Meal makes it a very added value product for animal feed.

              We are working on a deguming salution right now.

              Gary

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: degumming canola oil

                Check this website out they sell personal degumming machines

                http://www.fuelmeister.com/home/useful_links.asp

                They cost about 3500

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: degumming canola oil

                  hey Gary I was wondering how much and what type of seed u are processing in the Insta-pro?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: degumming canola oil

                    Degumming canola involves using very small amounts of phosphoric acid to turn the non hydratable gums to hydratable ones then washing them all out with water. Gums are the nasties that block up the injectors and gum up everything. But as someone pointed out, they only exist in crude oil, not refined or used oil.

                    If you have a commercial crusher crush the seed (by the way they are pressed hot not cold, even without solvent extraction) then they can also degum the oil for you. (at an extra cost of course).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: degumming canola oil

                      We only press Canola. Our canola seed is presed cold in the first press which gets about 40-50% of the oil. By the time it gets through the extruder and into the second press which takes the meal down to about 5% oil left in the meal its in the 250deg F range.

                      We press one ton of seed and hour and get about 80 gal of oil this plant runs 24hours a day 6 days a week.

                      Gary

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: degumming canola oil

                        Gary,

                        It is my understanding that if the temperature of the press stays lower (say <200 deg. F) then there is less gums produced during the mechanical crushing process. Ideally if you want as little gums as possible then the temp. needs to be around 160 deg. F.

                        Do you know or can you find out what the phospholipid (gum) content of your oil is?

                        Thanks

                        GCG

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: degumming canola oil

                          A few weeks ago I related a experience I had with a gummed up IP on the Kero Blend thread. I would like to give a update on this thread as it seems a little more relevant to my recent experiences.
                          To cut a long story short, after running successfully on VO for a number of months I changed to hot filtering (55 C), the reason being my supplier changed his oil to what I can only guess is palm oil. The box it comes in says vegetable oil made in Malaysia and the oil is solid at room temp.
                          I am now quite convinced that although palm oil has a low relative gum/wax content this is the source of my problem. When I say problem, it is that I can get no more than 100 kms on VO before the governor in the IP siezes. Thankfully the local diesel service is very helpful and they talked me through how to take the top off the IP so that I could get at the governor to free it up. After the fourth siezure last night I am out of ideas on how to beat this problem.
                          On my last run I used a blend of 90% VO, 5% kero., 5% ULP and 3 times the recommended strength of Diesel Power. Obviously these solvents in the VO didn't do the trick. I am also using Diesel Power in my diesel tank, as I have found that on a couple of occasions the IP has locked up when running on diesel, but only after I had previously done a run on VO. If I run on diesel after freeing the IP everything is fine until I do a run on VO.
                          It may seem obvious at this point that I should be removing the gum by cold filtering before I put the oil in my vehicle. To do this I would have to find another oil supplier, which are not plentiful in this part of the world. Besides, I believe that palm oil is a recognised form of SVO fuel, it has a low IV and a high cetane rating. I am at a loss as to work out how to cold filter a oil that is solid unless it is heated.
                          My first preference is to persist with the hot filtering and somehow keep the gum from building up on the governor as the rest of the fuel system seems to be coping. In saying that, any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

                          Malcolm.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: degumming canola oil

                            What does this gum look like and what are its characteristics? Does it look anything like the soild, cold oil or does it appear to be something different all together?
                            How do you, and what does it take to free up the govenor?
                            Could you get a pic of the stuff to give a better idea of what your dealing with?

                            You said your mechanic had seen this gum in vehicles running Bio but I have never heard of problems with Gum as I understand it in Bio. I'm wondering if what you are refering to as gum could be somethng else but I can't see how it could be FFA or soap in unreacted oil which only leaves some sort of polymerisation goin on.
                            Do you get any of this gum or any sort of residue in the tanks you store or transport this oil in?

                            From the info you have given, I can only wonder if the fuel is getting to the IP hot enough or if somehow it is cooling in the IP to a point where it gels again. Perhaps the govenor is exposed to a stream of cold air that cools the oil in that part of the IP?

                            Is your HE plumbed so all the coolant has to go through it at all times or do you have it T'd or any other way such as when the heater is on that the coolant can bypass the HE and take a less restrictive path?

                            For this time of year and running a thick oil like that, I would reccomend a lot more thinning than what you are currently running.
                            I would be trying 20 -30% kero or 20 % ULP.
                            The kero would be better because the HE and glowplug will likely boil out and vapourise that high a percentage of ULP.
                            Alternatively, run 20% ULP but don't heat it or, install a ball valve and a T in your coolant supply line to reduce the heating to a maximum of around 50o.

                            For winter temps, I would suggest a minimum of 15-20% thinning of any oil.

                            If you could possibly find a supplier of liquid oil, it is probably the best and easiest soloution.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: degumming canola oil

                              David,
                              Thank you for the reply. Hopefully there is a attachment with this post showing the governor. As you can see everything looks Hunky Dory, but it is locked solid. I have never seen the offending substance, it seems to be inside the mechanism. To free it I drain the IP, then refill it with ULP. After many hours of soaking I am able to manually work the shaft.
                              I do not feel this is a case of polymerisation because -
                              Palm oil has a low IV
                              It is winter
                              The oil is fresh
                              I regularily flush the tank
                              There is no sign of polymerisation in the tank
                              Previously I used oil with a high peroxide value, my pump did not sieze.
                              At change over, the oil temp. at the IP is 30/40 c, and within minutes it is 60 +, I agree this is not as hot as it could be, but a few months ago when everything was working well I did not have heating immediately before the IP.
                              Yes, I feel it may be worth trying some different blends, although I must admit that I am a little pessermistic of my chances of success due to the fact that I am only able to get one or two trips before breaking down on my current brew.
                              Thanks again for the help.

                              Malcolm.

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