Fuel efficient vehicles with BIO/WVO

[neil Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close neil]

Hi Team.

Probably get my head bitten off but will give it ago.

Noticed another new member talking about converting a troopy to WVO and this made me think why do we have so many people
wanting to convert vehicles with less fuel efficient motors,especially when WVO is going to get harder to obtain.
wouldn't it be best to try and get a more fuel efficient car.
I understand members will talk about lifestyle and needs of a big vehicle and the actual cost of purchasing a vehicles, but haven't we got to a point where we have to adjust our way of life,aren't we already doing this by being on this forum?.
So why are we all here?, To save money?,maybe save the planet?. For me its about learning and ultimately obtaining the most fuel efficient car that is able to be converted to run on WVO , I do not have any preference for brands of vehicles but want it to run on WVO and todate it looks like a Mercedes C250d averaging around 6 L/100km on the Hwy,this will cost more to purchase but you also have the added peace of mind with safety features like airbags,ABS and maybe German quality.

Anyway bite my head off but let me know should we be all looking into better fuel efficient vehicles to save our precious WVO.

I do understand a persons vehicle selection can also come down to the cost factor so please I am not trying to belittle anyone
if this is their main factor.

[joe Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close joe]

Re: Fuel efficient vehicles with BIO/WVO

No head biting necessary.

For me and I suspect a lot of users it would be a combination of the following:

Life style - 4wding
Size/power of car - needed for family and camping, boating etc
Money - cant afford newer car
Experiment with older car
Older cars more forgiving with fuel - See common rail and DI threads related to this.

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: Fuel efficient vehicles with BIO/WVO

Fair comments, if someone cant justify why they are driving a 4WD they shouldnt be doing so.
I think 4WD's are common for a couple of reasons, they are cheap because they suck fuel, as more fuel efficient cars are more in demand because of their fuel efficiency. Of course buyers of a diesel (to run on used cooking oil) are looking at value for money, and fuel consumption is not a great factor.
That and diesel gemini's are getting thin on the ground!

[83Patrol Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close 83Patrol]

Re: Fuel efficient vehicles with BIO/WVO

Easy!
Because the Yanks don't worry about fuel efficiency and as most people on veg forums copy everything the yanks do without thinking for themselves or investigating the validity of the information, they will just convert behemoths they don't need as well!

Of course there is also the fact that many of the truly fuel efficient cars available here are little European things with engines that don't take well to an SVO conversion and have no room under the bonnet to do it anyway.

Dave Jones, you are always so negative and scathing. You look for the worst in people all the time.

Some people like to go places off the beaten track on camping trips and stuff where and ol bomb like a W123 300D or a Peugeot wouldn't make it.

Some people also sleep in their cars when they go away, instead of pitching a tent in the rain or paying for a motel. Think of the money saved there, in comparison to the bit more fuel that's used.

I know I'd rather stretch out on a nice mattress next to a coupla cubees of warm WVO in a Troopy or LWB Patrol rather than curl up like an unloved dog on a vinyl seat in a musty old Merc or Pug.

But each to their own. You just keep on keeping on, Dave Jones

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: Fuel efficient vehicles with BIO/WVO

I wouldnt bite someones head off for questioning that I drive a 4WD, that I am a teacher, or just about anything else.
Accuse me of copying something American without questioning it, and you may be getting close.......
I bought the same type of car as my brother and father. I tries hard to find a more suitable car that wasnt the same, (I dont want to appear as the type of person that would think my sister cute, if you catch my drift) but it came down to 3 things.
1. Suitable for towing boat (1500kg+ boat ramps).
2. Able to do long trips without refueling. (visiting parents or inlaws is about 900K round trip)
3. Standard 2 tanks.
Any other cars got 1000k range from one of 2 tanks in the car?

[Suzy Member Find all posts View Profile Close Suzy]

Re: Fuel efficient vehicles with BIO/WVO

Noticed another new member talking about converting a troopy to WVO and this made me think why do we have so many people
wanting to convert vehicles with less fuel efficient motors,especially when WVO is going to get harder to obtain.

I think it's a natural consequence of the rise in fuel prices. The resale value of behemoths drops, so people looking to save a buck will buy them and convert them to the cheapest possible fuel.

I'm with you. I like to run my fuel efficient, minimally-polluting car on the most environmentally responsible, sustainable fuel that I can, and I look forward to the day when the cost of fuel reaches the point that there are no more 4wds to trash the planet.

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: Fuel efficient vehicles with BIO/WVO

1) My choice to purchase a 4WD was not to save a buck. If I kept the old car and set aside $7000 for fuel I would still be purchasing fossil fuel from the money. Instead I sold the car and added $7000, bought an older 4WD which had done 320,000 k’s more than the car I sold, so I could run on used cooking oil. I would have been better off financially (and time wise) to keep the magna, Of course I could have added more than the $7000 and bought a newer car and run biodiesel, however this was financially beyond me.

2) Your view that “4WD’s trash the planet” is biased. Is the guy in a 2wd car driving around for no reason not trashing the planet? Is the slow moving traffic jam in big cities with only one person in the car not trashing the planet? When does “choice” become "trashing the planet".

Anyway if you are really into

I like to run my fuel efficient, minimally-polluting car on the most environmentally responsible, sustainable fuel that I can,

then I look forward to hearing your comments on the new hyaundai electric car when you purchase one. (Blade Electric Vehicles) Solar panels on the roof of your house and you have 100% emmision free motoring. Unless of course you are just

looking to save a buck

[neil Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close neil]

Re: Fuel efficient vehicles with BIO/WVO

Some interesting replies.

Have to say I have a little more faith in our members, as I stated above I thought I would have been crucified with some of my comments.

I still cannot justify a 4WD and its fuel consumption ,I was horrified when recently a newbie mentioned he wanted to start making Bio as his landcruiser was using 14L/100km around town.

Lifestyle choice owning a 4WD is going to come to and end just like the recreation boating fraternity, I live 1km from our local boat ramp and the last 12 months you hardly see a boat going past, Rivera on the Goldcoast Australia's largest boat builder has just put off 400 workers as no one can seem to afford the fuel to use them.

I can see WVO getting harder to obtain and the need to start saving the stuff now, and the biggest way to save will be using more fuel efficient cars.
Whats wrong with a merc that only uses 6L/100km on the freeway, traveling distance should be well over 1000km per tank.

I think you need to be ditching the idea of a 4WD is ok as the WVO is free.
And I don't think lifestyle choice is a reason to own a 4WD anymore.
Its just going to get harder and harder.

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: Fuel efficient vehicles with BIO/WVO

Some fair comments, but in this part of the world getting hold of oil in not hard, and the oil I use I am not competing with anyone for, I am only stoping it going into landfill. No comercial collector can collect from the places I get it from. (either there is no room for a 44 gallon drum, or a driveway that you cant get a truck into) the only other bloke that asked for some I was happy to share it with, but he has stopped taking it.
I am literaly running my car on garbage, because I am saving it from landfill.
And I also have a merc, which is used in preferance to the 4WD when possible.
I still think all people make choices about things that impact on the environment, and some are questioned and others not. If you live 50ks from work in a big city and drive a merc , people wont question your driving choices. If however you live 5ks from work, and drive a 4WD, people will question how much fuel you use, even though you use a fraction of what the other guy uses.

[froggo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close froggo]

Re: Fuel efficient vehicles with BIO/WVO

Hi everyone,

this is a cool thread.

Funny how some people who live in capital cities say 4x4's are bad. They still drive their own car/vehicle when most have access to public transport.

They still buy their ever larger v8 holdens/fords/mercs because they can.
Why don't these rich buggers get picked on for their vehicle choice? They could have brought a 4 cylinder and saved the planet.

In the country I forget what a train or a bus looks like. The roads are crap and most are dirt. Pot holes are big enough to swallow your pug.

The pedestrians here are Kangaroos, cows, horses and believe me the bull bar is a handy invention.

Every week here someone has their car totalled by roadside critters.

Try having a horse come through the windscreen of your low to the ground, bendy, no bullbar city sedan and see how quick you trade up to a good old Toyota Landcruiser Troopcarrier.

It goes without saying that they must have bullbar, spots so bright you can help light up the local footy ground and at least 1x CB and 1xUHF.

So for me the 4x4 is the vehicle I choose to drive for the conditions we have to contend with where I live. Plus it's handy to tow the boat and camper,

God bless froggo.

[83Patrol Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close 83Patrol]

Re: Fuel efficient vehicles with BIO/WVO

In terms of being environmentally responsible, some people think the way to go about it is to go buy a heavily-advertised, green-certified brand-new car that does 100k on a couple of litres of fuel.

Okay, great - the end user ends up directly spewing less emissions into the air through the exhaust.

Consider though, the energy (mainly in the form of non-renewably fossil fuels) and materials (often new metals, plastics, a crap load of nice fresh water) used in construction of that car and the pollution created.

Also, new infrastructure in the form of factories and machinery are constantly constructed to manufacture these new cars. Nice, compact, fuel efficient & emissions-compliant cars made in Asia, Europe and everywhere else are shipped over to us by behemoths burning bunker fuel and spewing their rubbish into the oceans (ask anyone who's ever worked on one of those ships and they'll tell you some stories about what gets jettisoned and pumped into the ocean).

I saved my old 1982 4WD from the graveyard and got it at a bargain price. Yeah, it weighs over 1.5 tonne - not much more than most modern cars, though. As well as a lower captial outlay, a big part of my decision was putting re-use and avoidance of new materials before better fuel consumption. My call - people don't have to agree with it.

And of course, if we were really concerned about being as environmentally friendly as we possibly could, none of us would be driving cars - we'd be walking (or riding used bikes - bikes are the most efficient, in terms of energy in vs energy out, form of mechanized transport there is).

Also, I question how environmentally responsible or sustainable vegetable oil as a fuel really is.

Responsible?

Definitely more than most other fuels out there, if it's WVO (or BD made from WVO) - re-using a waste product (or stopping it from being fed to ill-treated factory farmed animals, and probably ourselves in teh form of processed food).

Sustainable?

Monocropping canola, soy or any other species of plant can hardly be called environmentally-friendly. Biodiversity takes a kick in the pants for starters. Then consider the whopping amount of water used to grow the stuff. Add a few megatonnes of artificial fertilizer (made from non-renewable fossil fuels) and a few megalitres of pesticides and herbicides and like I said, not very friendly to environment - or anything else for that matter.

I guess it's sustainable - but only until everything dies from the above practices. And without the above practice, there's no used veggie oil in whopping amounts just hanging out the back of restaurants.

... I look forward to the day when the cost of fuel reaches the point that there are no more 4wds to trash the planet.

Personally, I look forward to the day when there are no more cars to trash the planet - 4WD or not!

[journeyman Mick Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close journeyman Mick]

Re: Fuel efficient vehicles with BIO/WVO

................and I look forward to the day when the cost of fuel reaches the point that there are no more 4wds to trash the planet.

Suzy,
So if/when the day comes that there are no more terrible 4wds trashing our planet consider:
Do you grow your own food? If not, you may well find it a problem to obtain enough as the farmers will be struggling without their 4wds.

Do you like to get out into nature? Do you use the toilet facilities in remote national parks? They were probably built by tradesmen using 4wds to access the area.
Do you like to get out into the bush? Well, once all the 4wds are gone there's going to be a lot more of the bush burnt. In Qld alone there are over 44,000 volunteer firefighters, most of whom use 4wds to access bushland to fight fires. Many of these (including myself) use their own 4wds to engage in firefighting activites.
Once there's no more 4wds you'll also see an increase in new home building costs as there will be a need for developers to either provide all weather access to all new developments and/or wear higher labour costs due to materials and plant needing to be carried in to job sites. As a tradesman I use my ute in 4wd regularily to access job sites.

Can you honestly say that you never use your vehicle for anything other than strictly utilitarian trips? Could you not use a pushbike or at least a moped or scooter? So can you honestly say that you're not responsible for planet trashing? Glass houses mate, glass houses...........

Mick

[RODEONICK Too Busy To Bio. Find all posts View Profile Close RODEONICK]

Re: Fuel efficient vehicles with BIO/WVO

I like to run my fuel efficient, minimally-polluting car on the most environmentally responsible, sustainable fuel that I can, and I look forward to the day when the cost of fuel reaches the point that there are no more 4wds to trash the planet.

So the manufacture of your new car didn't pollute?? Wake up, Are you from the north shore by any chance?? By buying an older used car you are potentially stopping a new one being manufactured thus saving a lot more carbon, water and energy. My 4wd uses 10 litres per 100kms, i live in a rural area on a farm but i did live in the city, i cannot afford 2 cars with NSW rego costs so my 10/100 GUZZLER had to suffice in the city. I do partially agree that many people do drive vehicles that they don't really need but we are a free society so let them be. Suzy using your same attitude i can Say (being from the country) that no person in sydney should own a car. You dont need one you CHOOSE to have one. Where i'm from its car only, no public trans here sister. YOU have the option i don't as don't other country folk. Look at the bigger picture do you really care for the planet? Or do you just trash something you have no REAL knowledge of to make yourself feel like a better person while at the Bio pump?? think about it.

Some interesting replies.
I still cannot justify a 4WD and its fuel consumption ,I was horrified when recently a newbie mentioned he wanted to start making Bio as his landcruiser was using 14L/100km around town.

Whats wrong with a merc that only uses 6L/100km on the freeway, traveling distance should be well over 1000km per tank.

I think you need to be ditching the idea of a 4WD is ok as the WVO is free.
And I don't think lifestyle choice is a reason to own a 4WD anymore.
Its just going to get harder and harder.

Thats right YOU cannot justify owning a 4WD and thats fine for YOU. There is nothing wrong with a merc and noting wrong with any other vehicle for that matter, respect and enjoy that we are a free society and have choice. Lifestyle choices hey? I will keep a 4wd and when i have kids they will seen this great country instead of being swallowed up in this video game generation. 4wdriving is a fun, healthy and education activity forgive me for wanting to do that and to share it with my kids. I better go buy them a new video game and mcdonalds instead. I'm not telling you to buy a 4wd, i'm telling you to respect other peoples choices. Remember my 4wd chews less litres per 100kms than a commodore.

I still think all people make choices about things that impact on the environment, and some are questioned and others not. If you live 50ks from work in a big city and drive a merc , people wont question your driving choices. If however you live 5ks from work, and drive a 4WD, people will question how much fuel you use, even though you use a fraction of what the other guy uses.

You hit the bullet mate.

Funny how some people who live in capital cities say 4x4's are bad. They still drive their own car/vehicle when most have access to public transport.
They still buy their ever larger v8 holdens/fords/mercs because they can.
Why don't these rich buggers get picked on for their vehicle choice? They could have brought a 4 cylinder and saved the planet.

In the country I forget what a train or a bus looks like. The roads are crap and most are dirt. Pot holes are big enough to swallow your pug.

The pedestrians here are Kangaroos, cows, horses and believe me the bull bar is a handy invention.

Every week here someone has their car totalled by roadside critters.

Try having a horse come through the windscreen of your low to the ground, bendy, no bullbar city sedan and see how quick you trade up to a good old Toyota Landcruiser Troopcarrier.

It goes without saying that they must have bullbar, spots so bright you can help light up the local footy ground and at least 1x CB and 1xUHF.

So for me the 4x4 is the vehicle I choose to drive for the conditions we have to contend with where I live. Plus it's handy to tow the boat and camper,

God bless froggo.

Froggo I'm already in the Sh*t with the city folk so can i come out sometime to go shooting??

Suzy,
So if/when the day comes that there are no more terrible 4wds trashing our planet consider:
Do you grow your own food? If not, you may well find it a problem to obtain enough as the farmers will be struggling without their 4wds.

Do you like to get out into nature? Do you use the toilet facilities in remote national parks? They were probably built by tradesmen using 4wds to access the area.
Do you like to get out into the bush? Well, once all the 4wds are gone there's going to be a lot more of the bush burnt. In Qld alone there are over 44,000 volunteer firefighters, most of whom use 4wds to access bushland to fight fires. Many of these (including myself) use their own 4wds to engage in firefighting activites.
Once there's no more 4wds you'll also see an increase in new home building costs as there will be a need for developers to either provide all weather access to all new developments and/or wear higher labour costs due to materials and plant needing to be carried in to job sites. As a tradesman I use my ute in 4wd regularily to access job sites.

Can you honestly say that you never use your vehicle for anything other than strictly utilitarian trips? Could you not use a pushbike or at least a moped or scooter? So can you honestly say that you're not responsible for planet trashing? Glass houses mate, glass houses...........

Mick

Spot on Mick, As a farmers son I see this happening sooner rather than later. I can and do grow my own beef,fruit and vegies and love that i can garentee my family food no matter what happens. But i should put my 4wd and all the other thirsty farm equipment out of action for city folk with their micro fuel usage so they can zip down to woolies to buy 2litres of milk. Glass houses thats for sure.

[Nuddy Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Nuddy]

Re: Fuel efficient vehicles with BIO/WVO

Thats right YOU cannot justify owning a 4WD and thats fine for YOU. There is nothing wrong with a merc and noting wrong with any other vehicle for that matter, respect and enjoy that we are a free society and have choice. Lifestyle choices hey? I will keep a 4wd and when i have kids they will seen this great country instead of being swallowed up in this video game generation. 4wdriving is a fun, healthy and education activity forgive me for wanting to do that and to share it with my kids. I better go buy them a new video game and mcdonalds instead. I'm not telling you to buy a 4wd, i'm telling you to respect other peoples choices.

Very well put Nick. I agree 100%.

[Nuddy Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Nuddy]

Re: Fuel efficient vehicles with BIO/WVO

I look forward to the day when the cost of fuel reaches the point that there are no more 4wds to trash the planet.

I look forward to the day when the cost of fuel, infrastructure and production means that only old 4wds are left and little single use single occupant smooth road only commuter vehicles are no longer spending most of their time idling in traffic and trashing the planet.