New forum for Ethanol

[Robert Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Robert]

OK, I've finally caved in and done it! I've had so many requests, both from existing biodiesel users and from the general web public, as well as from the possible future inclusion of the new biofuel users group that we've been talking about. It is the biofuels forum after all, not just biodiesel. A little bit later this year I will clean up and re-arrange this whole forum significantly and I might arrange all the forums in a better manner, but for now, this sub-forum will just sit tacked on the end of the others.

Personally, I've always had the view that ethanol requires so much energy to make, it is almost as bad greenhouse-wise as petrol, however, it is renewable, which has something going for it. I'm hoping that the enlightened individuals who will use this forum here will prove me wrong and show a thriving community of passionate and articulate folk who care for the world they live in.


So come on folks, feel free to discuss ethanol and butanol (I admit, I've also heard people use the terms "bioethanol" and "biobutanol", but I don't know the difference, hopefully soon I'll learn .)

(Also, please try to focus this on Australian use. Sure we welcome folks from all over the world here and appreciate your input, but we live in Australia here.)

[darren leonadas Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close darren leonadas]

Re: New forum for Ethanol

Well done Robert. We have to face the reality that most people have petrol engines, And all of my friends who love what we are doing face the reality that they cant afford to sell their petrol car to buy a diesel. (I sometimes wonder how they can afford to fill 'em up)
To run E85 all people have to do is have there aspirated cars tuned accordingly. I dont know much about tuning injected cars, but aspirated is easy.
Next big thing - Where does one find pure ethanol to make their own E85.?????????
Keep up the good work Darren.

[Healthy Earth Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close Healthy Earth]

Re: New forum for Ethanol

Ethanol is a burning question in my mind.

I am very involved in the grape industry which is now in trouble as most are aware.
In some parts of the world winegrapes are being sold for ethanol production because of the glut.
South america have been growing "ethanol" grapes for years.
Ther is a lot for us to find out i.e.
1 How to distill it.
2 how much ethanol comes out of the average ton of grapes
3 are licences needed for distilling?
4 Can pure ethanol be used with maybe an upper cylinder lubricant?

Any pointers? I can see some smart farmers stilling their own ethanol in Australia in the next year or two and I would love to help them.

[Sauman Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Sauman]

Re: New forum for Ethanol

Good to see this happenning.
Bio Etahnol.
Well for this one you can make a solar powered still.Even more earth friendly.
Mate Robert>>GOOD ON YOU FOR STARTING IT>I had hinted on the subject when I said about the Shed Concept of it having a BD Unit+Bioethanol still+ Wine vat>>> !!!

Peter good to see you here.Back from your holidays?I have since shifted to Delhi.

Robert I don't know the rules and laws of home distilling in OZ.Remember we want to do the right thing by law.As I have complete plans and details by means of which guys can start making there own Solar stills.Actually me mate in the States was the one who designed it.Has been working in multiple numbers all over the americas.Danger is some drink it to.....
So the question is do you really want all this info in public.

Peter we need to have a yarn.

Cheers
Sauman

[Robert Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Robert]

Re: New forum for Ethanol

Hey, I'm sure we all want that info, but you have a good point about finding out the Australian laws re stills.
As I see it, the internet is (presently) uncensored. Furthermore, without sticking my neck out too far, I'd be pretty comfy with saying that if this forum provided information on how to make a device that contravened some local law, then it would be up to the individual who read it to make up their own mind about how they used it. If we provide a disclaimer saying "check your local laws and make sure you use responsibly", I think it would be fine.
If you want to post some info on this please do. I think it would be a good way to get things started.
I like the idea of solar powered too, it gets some of the way to overcoming my present belief that the energy required to make ethanol outweigh the benefits, green-house wise.

[Sauman Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Sauman]

Re: New forum for Ethanol

Cool
Will dig up stuff.Robert we must warn the guys.No drinking the stuff.
Cos then we could have the potential of creating the Bioethoalcoholics.org
Sure the guys will prefer it then going down to the Bottlo and again giving johhny the money.

Have a hard think.One of the reasons I did not diviluge the info.But if everyone puts up there hands and like you say "Check with local Laws,violation acts,alcohol laws,internet code 3.14236789. int 3.16 para 6 vide ...
we will get away with it.

Give it a thought.
Will elaborate.

Cheers
Sauman

[Sauman Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Sauman]

Re: New forum for Ethanol

Well I gave it a Thought.
Check this link out of me mates in the states doing it in Bush land.
Sure we can find a way around law wise in the great southern land.
http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/index.html

More to follow if enthusiasm and laws and stuff checked.
Peter we need to have a yarn on the grape thingy

Cheers
Sauman

[Sauman Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Sauman]

Re: New forum for Ethanol

Opps
Just don't spend the money yet when you see the jazzy stuff on the link.Hold fire.
Cheers
Sauman

[Alga Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Alga]

Re: New forum for Ethanol

After reading this, I've changed my plans and look forward to building one of Saumans solar stills. After reading his link I can see the advantages of the seperated still from the boiler, it looks great. Detailed plans would be a good start if possible. I believe the law allows you to distill essential oils legally.

Could you have a blend of ethanol and a small amount of biodiesel for upper cyclinder lubrication. Some where I read they're already using veggie oil as lubricants, to have the knowledge to cover the spectrum of fuel and lubrication would certainly rate this site as a truly organic solar fuel source.

Keep up the great work

[Sauman Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Sauman]

Re: New forum for Ethanol

Well Folks
Now that you have got me going.Alga mate you are cool.
I am sure everyone knows that most of the Lubricants and grease that is sold in the market worldwide is just another extension of the vice grip of the Oil Dudes.Yep.!!!
Bio Degradable lubricants and grease is the most cost effective solution to all our lubricating and greasing needs.And guess what these plants are so easy to set up.
Again my concept of micro economics and coop set up.
I don't see any reason why a small complex in every country town having a coop which has the following.

1. Bio Diesel and Bio ethanol production
2. Blending plant
3. Veggie Grease plant
4. Lub recycle plant(The councils are doing this now).Why not create enterprise oil they are serious about small business boost
5. Education centre
6. lab

Thats all for now.Have a good weekend.
Cheers
Sauman

[Maxwell Member Find all posts View Profile Close Maxwell]

Re: New forum for Ethanol

Cheers Joe & Robert for the forum!
Some info about alcohols

Methanol 1-carbon alcohol
Ethanol 2-carbon alcohol
Butanol 4-carbon alcohol

Butanol is the closest to petrol,with minimal engine modifications needed and mixes readly with petrol, but hard to produce.
This is what I've read but if someone knows more or knows how to make butanol I'm intersted.
Cheers
Maxwell

[Healthy Earth Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close Healthy Earth]

Re: New forum for Ethanol

my Father was an environmentalist, a Greenie, an activist before these words had any meaning. I remember him writing scathing objections to the newspapers in the 60's about DDT, organophosphates and organochlorines. It made interesting and emotional reading but had very small effect and he was ridiculed for condemning these (at the time) wonderful and valuable products. At least he stood up and tried, alas he was way ahead of his time.
Me, I am not an activist but I realized a long time ago I needed to do something positive for our environment. Instead of going down the road of politics I decided to make environmentally friendly products that will nurture and heal the Earth. Hence the name Healthy Earth. A practical solution, if you want the farmers to change, they need the products and tools to change with.
I can see some very valuable tools and products to help the farmers make big changes; namely Ethanol and Biodiesel they can make for themselves.

Anyone interested in helping me put the tools together for the farmers?
We need to put together packages that will help them build ethanol producing equipment and also Biodiesel.
Fuel is one of the biggest costs on the farm and the farmer can provide his own raw materials in bulk at almost no cost.
Just send me a private email.
Peter

[Sauman Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Sauman]

Re: New forum for Ethanol

Hi Peter
Got your message.Welcome back.
I put my hand up for anything that you need to advance our farming fraternity.Maybe you could look at Self Help Groups(SHG) module that we have created in India.That way they have a legal identity and a force to reckon with when it comes to putting there views together to the Power People.That way micro financing can also be availed for specific projects for the groups.We can discuss this further.
We can only do it together.United we stand.Divided we fall.
You are right about words and activity which had meaning.I understand that fully being an activist myself.These days we are looked at like some loony who has escaped from the asylum.Just having a whing that is.
But hey I know we are a dying breed.But we never give up to stand up against wrong.Do the right thing.Isn't that we are supposed to do as responsible citizens.
So mate count me in.
Cheers
Keep smiling and shining.
Sauman

[Sauman Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Sauman]

Re: New forum for Ethanol

This is great link for info
http://www.nwicc.com/pages/continuin...urriculum.html

I've attached a PDF on making your own still (US based).Gives everyone a step by step way to make a full proof and still using stuff that one can get ones hand on very easily.Just don't start drinking the stuff after that .

Cheers

[Healthy Earth Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close Healthy Earth]

Fuel from the fruit market

Thanks Sauman, I knew I could rely on you and thanks for the offer.
These are only small beginnings, but I have learnt 'never to despise the small beginnings'.
As far as I can see ethanol can be made very cheaply in the suburbs to.
Think of the waste from fruit shops being converted into fuel with a still.
Then the leftover can be turned into compost. If people are worried about being busted for alcohol (or distillate) why not put something into it that makes it totaly unpallatable and put signage on the equipment and product that clearly marks them as 'unfit for human consumption'. A sign is easy to make.
Not too sure about the legality of this, but at least it shows the clear intention if anyone comes looking. The only other issue I am thinking about is storage of ethanol in correct containers and volumes and also the insurance company's policy on fuel storage. I would think they are similar issues that apply to biodiesel.
Peter