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  • Blocked filter???

    HI
    I have been trying to find the source of the poor idle when on oil and on the advice from members of this forum I changed the filter.
    I cut it open (sharp edges on the can) and found the filter paper to be a little brown stained .
    The oil seemed to flow fine from the fliter when I removed it so I think it was not too blocked. The car runs great on anything above idle and has the normal power.
    I will not get a chance today to take the car for a run but will report back after my work run tomorrow.
    The photo might show the more knowledgeable if the filter is to blame.
    I have the oil in filtered to 10 microns, then a 440l upflow system and when needed it's put through a 5 micron inside a 1 micron sock filter (cold). I think it has to be clean after all that. But I do fine some very fine "silt" still in the bottom of my filtered oil when letf to stand?
    Any thoughts?
    Rob
    97 Nissan patrol 2.8L turbo diesel RD28T
    New wvo conversion,2 tank, 30 FPHE, electric glow plug heater after 6 way valve, cav filter (just the norm). Just testing so far.

  • #2
    Re: Blocked filter???

    Am interested to see the photos. Also keen to know if element renewal fixed the idle problem. Is there any air bubbles or froth in the return line? Patch in a length of clear air line visible from driver's seat to eliminate/diagnose this possibility. It's not high pressure for the return, so simple adaption for testing purposes would be fine.
    Would be a different story if you are running looped system but then it's even more important to know if air is trapped in the circuit.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Blocked filter???

      OK
      I think I got the photo on this time
      I have watched the oil returning to the tank at the point where it flows into the tank and there seems to be no air bubbles.
      Might get out thisafternoon for a quick drive.
      Rob
      97 Nissan patrol 2.8L turbo diesel RD28T
      New wvo conversion,2 tank, 30 FPHE, electric glow plug heater after 6 way valve, cav filter (just the norm). Just testing so far.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Blocked filter???

        HI
        The oil comes from pub fryers mainly, 20L every other week from a Chinease place too.
        I have been only filtering to 10um as the oil I get is filtered into drums for me hot. The oil from the Chinease gets filtered first through old jeans then 10um filter as it's normally very used when I get it!
        I have a bit of a stockpile starting to happen and today I opened a drum that came from the upflow 2 weeks age and refiltered to 1um for the first 19 or so L and poured the rest back into the upflow.
        I took the car out for a run tonight and it seems a little better on the new filter, but still has a different sound on oil to diesel.
        I did work out that the filter I replaced did 1500km and some of the oil was from my early not settled for as long stock.
        I think at $4.50 a filter I am fine with replaceing them every 1500km if required.

        How long does eveeryone else get out of a fleetgard filter?
        I might do the final filter and then let that oil stand for a week or longer and see if that lets any more settlement take place. (i have been doing the 1um filter and adding it to the car.
        It's still an ongoing project...
        Need to add second valve to reduce fuel mixing , add a temp gauge so I might be able to switch a little earlier and maybe look into looping the return..
        Thanks
        Rob
        97 Nissan patrol 2.8L turbo diesel RD28T
        New wvo conversion,2 tank, 30 FPHE, electric glow plug heater after 6 way valve, cav filter (just the norm). Just testing so far.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Blocked filter???

          I think as has been mentioned above you should look at 1 micron filtering.
          Have been collecting and filtering for a few months now. I have kept sample bottles of my filtered oil outside on the cold cement out of the sun and all my 5 micron samples have a small amount of fat settling on the bottom,this can take a few days to occur.,however all my 1 micron samples look like golden honey.
          I filter with green shopping bag then a 5 micron filter followed by 1 micron and this is done after settling first for a few weeks.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Blocked filter???

            Originally posted by robertjusher View Post
            How long does eveeryone else get out of a fleetgard filter?
            Rob
            i change my Fleetguard filter every 5000km, i do it at the same time i change my engine oil.
            TroopyHZJ75

            225,000km on WVO and counting
            1991 HZJ75 Landcruiser Troopy
            Two Tank System- 90ltr Dino / 140ltr WVO
            30 plate HE
            CAV filter
            20 plate HE
            2 x 6 way pollack valves (one for delayed purge changeover)

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Blocked filter???

              Originally posted by robertjusher View Post
              How long does eveeryone else get out of a fleetgard filter?
              Rob
              Using cold filtered wvo/1 micron.
              I change my fleetguard element every 10.000 kms / second engine oil change.

              The element and glass bowl look like this when I change it....
              Fitian
              <><

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Blocked filter???

                The longer you keep your filter the better job it is doing of filtering, but if you keep it too long it will cause restriction and eventually fuel starvation.
                I use my vacuum gauge to determine when I need to change my filter, when the vacuum gets above 10"Hg I will change the filter. 10"Hg is Toyota spec' for a blocked filter.
                I have blocked a Ryco in 1200 km but that was probably water in the oil.
                I have done 8000 km on the Crossland that replaced it so far with no increase in vac' readings.
                It will be dependant on your oil quality. If your oil is good enough your filter will last a very long time. If your oil is crap your filter will block up very quickly.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Blocked filter???

                  HI
                  Thanks to all for taking the time to reply.
                  My filter and bowl looked much cleaner then the one in your photo Fitian.
                  I had a better drive today and the idle is still not as good as on diesel and the engine still has a very different sound to it. But runs well at normal driving speeds.

                  Planty of heat so I am thinking fuel stavaration might be a problem at idle.
                  Can anyone explaine the Looping the return to me?
                  Is it just running the return line back to the feed line with a tee off and returning it to the feed line just before the FPHE?
                  I was thinking of blending the oil with a little diesel to see if it helps with the flow of the oil and see if it helps. It's nice and warm up here now so I don't think cold is an issue.
                  I might not have explained my oil filtering system very well as the oil does get a 1 micro filter and after sitting a sample in the fridge for a few days there is no hard fats present and the hot pan test has also come up clear.
                  I believe the oil is as good as I can get it, with plenty of filtering and time in the upflow tanks.
                  In the last few weeks I have drawn off less the 10%per week, and this oil should be at least 8 weeks old in the upflow tank.
                  I will take the advice and keep the Chinease place oil seperate and give it time and even more filtering before adding to the upflow tank.
                  The vac gauge show <5hg on oil and same on diesel so ..... not sure really...

                  maybe a pump or loop system might help??
                  Rob
                  97 Nissan patrol 2.8L turbo diesel RD28T
                  New wvo conversion,2 tank, 30 FPHE, electric glow plug heater after 6 way valve, cav filter (just the norm). Just testing so far.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Blocked filter???

                    Originally posted by robertjusher View Post
                    The vac gauge show <5hg on oil and same on diesel so ..... not sure really...
                    maybe a pump or loop system might help??
                    Rob
                    If your vac is no more that 5"Hg then I would think that you don't have fuel starvation or any significant restriction in the system, thus a pump won't help and adding one may cause other problems.
                    I can't comment on a loop system as I have no experience at all with looping.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Blocked filter???

                      The vac gauge show <5hg on oil and same on diesel
                      I've often thought the diesel vac reading would become distorted with vege being added to the dino by cross contamination. With a regular pollak setup, somewhere in the region of half litre returned each time the switch is made back to dino.

                      While the CAV has many good attributes like element price, easy to mount and plumb, it's a pity the GPH isn't a bit higher. The patrol's stock filter GPH would surely be higher plus it has only to deal with dino and not vege at approx 4times the viscocity(heated). The CAV has its' work cut out for it but we know they can do the job with careful attention to detail.

                      To test out whether the filter is the culprit causing poor idle, etc, you could do a simple test.
                      Get 4 litres of your filtered oil and put in a spotless clean plastic oil container.
                      Run the feed and return lines into it. Use plastic air line for the task.
                      Tape the lines securely to the opening of the container.
                      Secure the container itself so it can't tip over.
                      Drive and switch over to the test tank when motor is hot enough.

                      This will tell you whether the filter is restrictive...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Blocked filter???

                        HI all
                        I did a little experment tonight.
                        I replaced 1/3 of the oil in my tank with diesel to thin the oil.
                        No change, still a poor and not healthy sounding ratterly idle. I am going to drain all the oil and try 100% diesel in the oil tank and see if the suitation is the same. It should rule out weather my engine just does not like oil or if there is a problem with the tank, delivery setup.
                        Another test might be to replce the cav filter with a cartrage clear type for a test run and see what happens. (thanks for the idea tbird)
                        I am not sure if I trust the vac gauge as the lowest reading on it is 5hg on a scale of 50 so might not be a real honest reading.

                        I would really like to sort this out as I have invested a lot of time (and money) and am very keen to continue with this venture.
                        So it continues
                        Rob
                        robertjusher
                        Member
                        Last edited by robertjusher; 15 September 2008, 09:18 PM. Reason: can't type at better then a 5 year old level!
                        97 Nissan patrol 2.8L turbo diesel RD28T
                        New wvo conversion,2 tank, 30 FPHE, electric glow plug heater after 6 way valve, cav filter (just the norm). Just testing so far.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Blocked filter???

                          Originally posted by Dave Jones View Post
                          Bingo!

                          ......The Chinese oil tends to be loaded with this particle matter and in my experience, seems to be able to pass through even 1 um filter bags but will quickly clog an onboard filters even if they are larger micron rating. I have no explanation for this logic defying event but it has happend to me numerous times.
                          I have settled the chinese oil for several months and it has gone from virtually black like sump oil to a much lighter and far more transparent appearance. The bottom of the settling drum has a thick, black layer which is unique to the chinese oil and nothing like I have seen anywhere else. 2 weeks isn't really long enough to do much in an upflow system. You need to give it at least a month to do much particularly if you are having problems with your oil. I have found that a 10% draw off of the total upflow capacity in winter per week gives good clean oil and 20-25% can be drawn off in summer. If your oil is really good, these volumes may be increased a little and vice versa if your oil is fat, water or particle laden.
                          Dave I get most of my oil from a Chinese place and yep, that is exactly what happens, filter filter filter, and yet stuff still settles out over a few months. I used to improve it with mist washing but am now just settling it for much longer as I have built up stocks.
                          Johnnojack
                          4WD Isuzu Jackaroo 3.1 200000km on WVO,(2020) 2 tank home built system 6 solenoids FPHE, heated filter fuel line and tank pickup for thicker oil. Mk. 9 version now and no changes planned as trouble free.
                          Mercedes W201 190D 1986 model: 2 tank system, bigger fuel line from tank, no heat exchanger, electric pump for diesel 22000km so far sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Blocked filter???

                            Originally posted by robertjusher View Post
                            HI
                            .....
                            Can anyone explaine the Looping the return to me?
                            Is it just running the return line back to the feed line with a tee off and returning it to the feed line just before the FPHE?
                            .....
                            Rob
                            In a word yes. If you mean running the return line to a Tee in the feed line before the FPHE. If you do it this way you will only be sending the vege thru the filter once instead of multiple times, thus reducing the load on the filter considerably. Another way to loop is to return fuel to before the filter. This method sends heated oil back to the filter helping to melt out any accumulated fats, though it still passes thru the filter multiple times as in a return to tank system.
                            Personally I do not like return to tank sytems as they heat up the oil in the tank and this causes problems such as polymerisation. I do know lots of people here do it but that's their choice.
                            Johnnojack
                            4WD Isuzu Jackaroo 3.1 200000km on WVO,(2020) 2 tank home built system 6 solenoids FPHE, heated filter fuel line and tank pickup for thicker oil. Mk. 9 version now and no changes planned as trouble free.
                            Mercedes W201 190D 1986 model: 2 tank system, bigger fuel line from tank, no heat exchanger, electric pump for diesel 22000km so far sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Blocked filter???

                              Originally posted by robertjusher View Post
                              HI
                              Thanks to all for taking the time to reply.
                              SNIP

                              Planty of heat so I am thinking fuel stavaration might be a problem at idle.
                              Can anyone explaine the Looping the return to me?
                              Is it just running the return line back to the feed line with a tee off and returning it to the feed line just before the FPHE?
                              I was thinking of blending the oil with a little diesel to see if it helps with the flow of the oil and see if it helps. It's nice and warm up here now so I don't think cold is an issue.
                              If the engine is running well on veggie at speed, then the filter is passing sufficient oil for the engine to use and pump to the tank at those speeds and power settings. This is WAY MORE fuel than is needed for idle.

                              Have you checked for air in the return line at idle? (sorry if you posted this before)
                              The vac gauge show <5hg on oil and same on diesel so ..... not sure really...

                              maybe a pump or loop system might help??
                              Rob
                              Your vacuum gauge should read from 0 to 30"Hg (which is related to the height in inches (") of a column of Mercury (Hg) which can be suspended above a vacuum at normal air pressure).
                              It may only have 6 graduations, of 5" each, but should be readable between these divisions. If you can't tell the difference between 0 and 5 and 5 and 10"Hg, you would be well advised to replace the gauge.

                              If there is little difference in fuel vacuum readings, between diesel and veg, this is not the problem (if the gauge is working well).
                              I hope this helps,
                              Tony
                              Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

                              Current Vehicles in stable:
                              '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
                              '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
                              '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

                              Previous Vehicles:
                              '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
                              '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
                              '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
                              '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
                              '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
                              '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
                              '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
                              '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
                              '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

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