First Successful Trip

[Socrates Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close Socrates]

Good morning bio forum members!!

I'm just reporting on a successful trip for the first time on SVO. (Canberra to Majors Creek Folk festival). Everything worked very well. I do need to tweak a few things though. The first is that I only used 1 20L drum for fuel. I'll need something bigger.

Also, I need to revisit my heating. I was hovering around 70C on the way up. Through town it was up past 80C. On the highway however I was losing heat, especially on the way home when the temperature dropped and I was only getting around 60C. I figure I might get another heat exchanger after the heated CAV. At the moment I'm thinking copper pipe wound around a coolant hose should do the job.

Apart from that, everything worked to perfection. I'd like to thank members of this forum for willingly sharing information and encouragement. It means a lot. Special thanks to those forum members who offered assistance and answered Pms.

One thing that happened though. One bloke came up to me and said his mate had a WVO conversion for 4 years and wrecked his IP with gunk. He said salt was the culprit and to avoid using oil that comes from a shop where they fry fish all the time. He reckoned there was no way of filtering out the salt and that it erodes components over time. I couldn't comment on this but thought I'd mention it on the forum.

Best wishes and thanks again.
Soc

[Tim-HJ61 Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tim-HJ61]

Re: First Successful Trip

Good to hear you're a happy traveller.

Perhaps we should only source oil from fish shops that use freshwater fish, not salt water fish, and this might stop the salt problems. .....

Never heard of it anyway young Soc. Doesn't mean it's not true, but I have my doubts. Isn't it true that salt only erodes things were there is splashing of salt water, i.e. contact with air, not on things that are totally immersed??

Tim

[rider-x Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close rider-x]

Re: First Successful Trip

Big congrats to you . My land cruiser runs around 60-65c and i have no problems. Most mornings this is as hot as the coolant gets. Anyway well done mate, its a great sense of achievement pushing the veg button and having it all work,
Pat

[Tony From West Oz Vice Chairperson of WARFA Find all posts View Profile Close Tony From West Oz]

Re: First Successful Trip

Good morning bio forum members!!

I'm just reporting on a successful trip for the first time on SVO. (Canberra to Majors Creek Folk festival). Everything worked very well. I do need to tweak a few things though. The first is that I only used 1 20L drum for fuel. I'll need something bigger.

Also, I need to revisit my heating. I was hovering around 70C on the way up. Through town it was up past 80C. On the highway however I was losing heat, especially on the way home when the temperature dropped and I was only getting around 60C.
SNIP
Best wishes and thanks again.
Soc

Soc,
Congratulations on your inaugural Veggie run, Yes you had better get a larger veggie tank, perhaps you could use the 20 as the start tank, at least for longer runs.

Did you record the coolant temperature? If it was below 80°C, perhaps you should check the thermostat before changing the plumbing. If it was 80-100°C then proceed with the modifications you feel are required, noting the advice here.

All the best,
Tony

[Socrates Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close Socrates]

Re: First Successful Trip

Good to hear you're a happy traveller.

Perhaps we should only source oil from fish shops that use freshwater fish, not salt water fish, and this might stop the salt problems. .....

Never heard of it anyway young Soc. Doesn't mean it's not true, but I have my doubts. Isn't it true that salt only erodes things were there is splashing of salt water, i.e. contact with air, not on things that are totally immersed??

Tim

Thanks Tim.
I was thinking along the same lines. It would be interesting to get more comments on this one. I thought you'd have to be putting salt on the fish before it goes in!!

Soc,
Congratulations on your inaugural Veggie run, Yes you had better get a larger veggie tank, perhaps you could use the 20 as the start tank, at least for longer runs.

Did you record the coolant temperature? If it was below 80°C, perhaps you should check the thermostat before changing the plumbing. If it was 80-100°C then proceed with the modifications you feel are required, noting the advice here.

All the best,
Tony

Good on ya Tony!
Yes, first step tank wise is to look at something a bit bigger that will fit where I want it.
No, I haven't checked the thermostat or got the coolant temp. My fuel line does have a bit of an air problem which I'll address asap. It was right on the HE. It didn't affect the engine performance because ample fuel was still getting through. I wonder if I fully belled the system whether this might have some effect.

Big congrats to you . My land cruiser runs around 60-65c and i have no problems. Most mornings this is as hot as the coolant gets. Anyway well done mate, its a great sense of achievement pushing the veg button and having it all work,
Pat

True Pat!! I was like a litle kid when I watched the facet pump bring the WVO through the system right up to the CAV!

Congrats on the first big Veg adventure.
For me, the enjoyment of the first trip any distance from home was more than offset by the worry if i would get back without problem. It was more the car itself I was worried about rather than the veg so hopefully your trip was a lot more relaxed.

Firstly, I don't think I would be worried about your oil temps. There seems to be this mindset in the veg world that you have to have the oil hotter than hell itself, but i don't believe this to be the case. The major reduction in veg viscosity has happened by 60 and all you need to achieve is a level of oil thinning that the IP and injectors can cope with. After that, it all gets a bit academic.

If the oil is hot enough for the IP to cope, the injectors won't have any problem being mounted in a great lump of metal of the head and having all the heat from that transferred to them.
Remember, You are only measuring the oil temp before it goes through the pump and injectors, not the temp after it hits them.

As long as the car ran fine, I wouldn't be getting suckered in to all the veg temp hype and making your system any more complicated than it has to be.

That said, How have you plumbed in your HE?
I read where ou were going to set it up so all the coolant had to run through it which is the correct way of setting the system up.
A lot of people make the Mistake of putting a T before the HE which gives the coolant a path to bypass it without adding anything to the oil heating process. People then go and oversize HE's that have many times the heating capacity needed to heat the amount of oil required IF the HE was run to it's proper capacity by making sure all the available coolant flow ran through, rather than around it.

If you have put your T in before the HE, don't spend any more money and turn your engine bay into a plumbers Nightmare with another HE till you try running ALL the coolant running through the HE before it goes anywhere else.

Like I said, I would be happy with the temps you are getting anyway.

Thanks Dave. A few things to think about here. Yes, the hilux ran really well. There was no evidence of smoke when going up hills under load like there usually is in a 2.8. So, that is good I guess.

I have put the T in up near the firewall where the heater line enters the vehicle. The cooland definitely runs through the HE. I tested this by touch. In and out are equal in heat. Before only the in was hot, the out? Negligible.

Anyway. I'll keep you posted.
Cheers and best wishes.
Socco!!

[Tim-HJ61 Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tim-HJ61]

Re: First Successful Trip

T

True Pat!! I was like a litle kid when I watched the facet pump bring the WVO through the system right up to the CAV!

Hmm, a facet for the WVO
If this is one of the tick tick tick facets I would be very careful about keeping it. In my experience they cannot keep up with the flow demand for the engine when pumping WVO. They are fine for thinner fuels - their designed purpose.

You MAY be able to get away with one if you have large hoses, so reducing the load on the facet and allowing it to pump to it's maximum potential. given you have not had power loss issues on the highway you may be okay, but I'd be wanting to know the actual litres per minute that it was pumping and for that to be well in excess of the normal fuel consumption of your engine.

IMHO you have a couple of options to get WVO to your CAV and IP

1. let the IP suck it up
2. increase your hose sizes to reduce resistance
3. instal a suitable pump that will pump the WVO at enough, but not too much, pressure for the inlet of your IP. (This is what you have tried to achieve with the Facet)
4. Instal a kick arzz pump (Fass or gear pump) that will provide far too much volume and pressure to your CAV and IP, but bleed off the excess and send it back to the tank, and/or instal a surge tank to keep a volume - perhaps a litre - under a slight positive pressure and close to your CAV/IP so the IP does not have to work hard to suck up the viscous oil.

See how you go with the Facet Socky, but if you start losing power and changing filters doesn't fix it, then I'd be looking at the Facet - esp in cooler weather. When you're game, try running the Lux without the Facet and see how it goes. Obviously don't just turn it off, bypass it as an experiment.

Tim

[Socrates Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close Socrates]

Re: First Successful Trip

Hmm, a facet for the WVO
If this is one of the tick tick tick facets I would be very careful about keeping it. In my experience they cannot keep up with the flow demand for the engine when pumping WVO. They are fine for thinner fuels - their designed purpose.

You MAY be able to get away with one if you have large hoses, so reducing the load on the facet and allowing it to pump to it's maximum potential. given you have not had power loss issues on the highway you may be okay, but I'd be wanting to know the actual litres per minute that it was pumping and for that to be well in excess of the normal fuel consumption of your engine.

IMHO you have a couple of options to get WVO to your CAV and IP

1. let the IP suck it up
2. increase your hose sizes to reduce resistance
3. instal a suitable pump that will pump the WVO at enough, but not too much, pressure for the inlet of your IP. (This is what you have tried to achieve with the Facet)
4. Instal a kick arzz pump (Fass or gear pump) that will provide far too much volume and pressure to your CAV and IP, but bleed off the excess and send it back to the tank, and/or instal a surge tank to keep a volume - perhaps a litre - under a slight positive pressure and close to your CAV/IP so the IP does not have to work hard to suck up the viscous oil.

See how you go with the Facet Socky, but if you start losing power and changing filters doesn't fix it, then I'd be looking at the Facet - esp in cooler weather. When you're game, try running the Lux without the Facet and see how it goes. Obviously don't just turn it off, bypass it as an experiment.

Tim

Thanks for this advice Tim.

The facet does deliver the WVO to the designated place and it is not losing power so maybe it is OK. I am using 12mm hose as per Tony from WAs advice. This hose is all the way from the tank to the CAV.

The facet is small and off a subaru. I don't want to be regretting this when we're loaded up and half way up a hill on the way to Brisbane so I might take your advice and not get a kick ass pump but go for suggestion number 3. I don't want to spend a fortune - do you have any sugestions for something that might be good? I have already gone to a lot of trouble with the wiring which goes back to a relay and then switch inside the vehicle with is hooked up to the ignition (fuse in the process too of course) so a 12V suitable pump might be great.

Thanks again.

[Socrates Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close Socrates]

Re: First Successful Trip

The little facets off the scooby Doo's are cheap and plentiful at the wreckers. Why not just install another one in parallel to your existing pump with a couple of T's to double your pumping power without breaking the bank?

Yeh - could do!

Then again. It looks like I might have a steady flow of oil for a while so I might invest in something a bit more decent.
Cheers

[Socrates Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close Socrates]

Re: First Successful Trip

I was just looking through ebay. What do yas reckon about something like this?

~ NEW HIGH PERFORMANCE ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP + REGULATOR ~ - eBay V8, Performance Parts, Car Parts, Accessories, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 19-Nov-08 20:30:00 AEDST)

That looks a bit more beefy than the poor facet. (Which , by the way did not work when I was demonstrating the system to someone yesterday - I don't yet know why!! )

What basic pump woirks for other forum members?

I'll do a fuel pump search on the forum and see what we come up with!

LATER: Righto. I've found some stuff. I'm none the wiser though. Seems everyone keeps talking about unreliable pumps rather than you beaut ones.
I'll keep looking. I'm hoping to make a decision soon. Cheers

[Socrates Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close Socrates]

Re: First Successful Trip

These are the Holley Style pumps which I have read less than glowing reports about when used on Veg.

If you want to get a good one, I think you are better off spending your money once and only once and getting a real good one that is known to work. I know Wayne ( Geewizztoo) bought one of the Walbro pumps and has had it over a year and is very pleased with it.

This is a thread about it.

Thanks mate!!

I did a bit of research. GENUINE WALBRO GSS341 FUEL PUMP - eBay, Air Intake, Fuel Delivery, Car Parts, Accessories, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 20-Nov-08 16:23:31 AEDST)

By the way, my facet pump still works. I just couldn't hear it!!

[Socrates Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close Socrates]

Re: First Successful Trip

That pump will NOT work!
I have 2, have tested them and they won't even move the clearest, thinnest WVO you would hope to get even in warm weather. Given the way they slow up on WVO, I would doubt they would even last more than a few hours ( if that) before burning out.

If you don't want to spend the money on the Walbro, your best bet for a cheap alternative is another Facet.

I thought the link was a Walbro Dave.

or you must be talking about the other one.

Did you see the ebay one?

[Tim-HJ61 Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tim-HJ61]

Re: First Successful Trip

Socrates,

There are three links to other threads in the FAQ at the top of the forum that focus on on board pumps. Rather than recreate the discussion in this thread, check those threads out.

Tim

[Socrates Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close Socrates]

Re: First Successful Trip

Socrates,

There are three links to other threads in the FAQ at the top of the forum that focus on on board pumps. Rather than recreate the discussion in this thread, check those threads out.

Tim

Sure Tim. Thanks.

I was looking up fuel pumps and not getting much info. I'll go in and take a peak.

Also, what I looked up so far talks about what doesn't work and not what does.

[geewizztoo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close geewizztoo]

Re: First Successful Trip

The pump you are after is one of these as discussed in the thread I referred to earlier.
I don't know the exact one you need, Wayne will likely have a look see here in the morning and I'm sure will point out which one he has.

Yeah, Dave is on the right track.

It's the Walbro FRB-5 that you need.

I bought mine from Flexible Drive Agencies here in Sydney about a 15 months ago and I paid $170.

Flexible Drive Agencies Pty. Ltd

Or you can mail order from the US from that website in Dave's link.

My pump has been on the car for 25,000km and has worked flawlessly ever since (I'm sure I've jinxed it now). It pumps cold veggie in the winter to 4psi measured at the filter.

[Nuddy Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Nuddy]

Re: First Successful Trip

I got my FRB-5 direct from the US when our dollar was up it cost me $125 delivered at the time but with the dollar down now it will probably be cheaper to get one from FDA.
Did 40,000 km on the troopy and was still working well when i took it off troopy and put it on patrol. 5,000 km there so far. 4 psi- same as Wayne gets.
However I suspect your facet, although working, is doing more harm than good. Do you really need a pump at all? Try by-passing the facet and observe the result. I had a facet on the troopy briefly and it was the cause of restriction. When I converted a hilux I found that, with 1/2" fuel line and Veg tank mounted on rear floor, it did not need a pump at all. In fact the pump I fitted initially (FRB-5) caused the IP front seal to leak. Removing the pump cured the leak.