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View Full Version : Swapping tallow for cottonseed



RASTEVE
23rd August 2006, 03:16 PM
I'm interested in making some biodiesel out of tallow or other similar harder fat, but I currently only have access to cottonseed oil. Is there anyone in the Melbourne area who would be happy to do some kind of swap, litre for litre?

Cheers, Steve.

Maxwell
24th August 2006, 01:23 AM
Hi Steve,
Just wandering why you would want to use tallow when cottonseed makes good fuel?
Cheers Maxwell

RASTEVE
24th August 2006, 10:51 AM
Sure, cottonseed makes good fuel!! I just wanted something a bit different to try as well and apparently it has a bit more 'go' in it. Perhaps someone could correct me if I'm wrong.

Cheers, Steve.

darren leonadas
24th August 2006, 03:06 PM
Yeah, I reckon from experience animal fat makes biodiesel with more Umph. We once has a batch of chicken fat, which made great fuel, It definitely had more Umph, and had an amazing aroma from the exhaust, Much like KFC.:D These days Chicken abatoirs throw away most of the chicken skin which contains all the fat. Aparently it takes the skin of 22 chickens to make one litre of Biodiesel.
Go here and read (http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/A4685DD2-5678-43FA-85C7-7B0E09C36ECD.htm) about how the Vietnamese are making BD from Fish fat. Apparently the Vietnamese make 30,000 tonnes per anum of tinned catfood from Mekong delta catfish farms for the US petfood market. But to make it consumable for Cats they have to cook out the Fat in the canning process. The Vietnamese have most of their power derived from diesel generators, and diesel pumps run the fish farm pumps.

Maxwell
24th August 2006, 04:06 PM
Hi All,
Thought it a bit rude to ask why, but glad I did!
Never thought of chicken fat. Would any one know how much oil out of 1kg of fat,what sort of waste is there.
I figure that the lighter oils are going to be harder to get as more people
find out about biodiesel and won't want to have the hassle of tallow.

Cheers,
Maxwell

RASTEVE
24th August 2006, 08:31 PM
That's cool Max. We all have to learn these things from somewhere. I only wish my boss were as understanding!! We can't be expected to automatically know everything!!

Matt
24th August 2006, 10:02 PM
Tallow makes wonderful fuel too. Just do not expect touse it incold climates or cool ones for that matter. It has to be warm to use it.

Matt

darren leonadas
24th August 2006, 10:03 PM
Its a fantasy of ours to dumpster dive a lyposuction clinic. Imagine telling people "my car runs on the arse of Fat people.":D :D :eek:

Sauman
24th August 2006, 10:49 PM
Lard ,tallow,animal fat makes excellent BD.However they have a high FFA .The industry practise is to either hydrogenate it or mix it with another oil that has a low FFA to arrive at a balance.
I don't see any reason why this principle of mixing cannot be used by us fringe dwellers.
Then we can be unbiased in saying
"Our car runs on fat from all kinda arses".

Cheers
Sauman

Robert
24th August 2006, 11:59 PM
Dumpster diving a liposuction clinic - sounds a bit like Fight Club (for those who have seen it. For those who have not and make biodiesel, or soap, you must see it, you'll get the parallels) ;)
The first rule of Biodiesel Club is "Do not talk about Biodiesel Club". The second rule of Biodiesel Club is "Do not talk about Biodiesel Club"...

Of course, you could always ask a liposuction clinic, they may just consent (with patient approval) and it could make some great publicity. This guy here in NZ (http://www.earthrace.net/view.asp?webpage=1228) has done just that for his round the world boat trip.

Matt
25th August 2006, 11:55 AM
Sauman, with the greatest respect I would like to point out that Tallow does not necessarily, or in my particular case, definately does NOT have a high FFA. In fact Tilly who frequents here has said the same on a few occaisions. (Please correct me if I am worng on that though Tilly, the FFA count, not where you frequent).

Anyway it has no more FFA when fresh than oil, I have made batches of pure tallow, 75%,50% etc etc and all titrated well below 5 in my case. All made fine bio. The higher the precentage of tallow the more the bio looked like Rose wine though.

Hydrogenation is for something else and may well make it have a high FFA but pure tallow (aka Frytol) is fine. Just gels a bit higher than the bio made form vegetable oils. I have no choice in my process of excluding it and have only ever had a hint of gelling (apart from one experiment at someplace at -6 Celsius).

Keep up your commentry, its great to see. My daughter was grossed out on the thought of liuposuction, although my bio partner is fascianted by the possibilities! Me I am kind of agnostic on my feedstock but have a very deep respect for the planet and all who occupy it.
Matt


Lard ,tallow,animal fat makes excellent BD.However they have a high FFA .The industry practise is to either hydrogenate it or mix it with another oil that has a low FFA to arrive at a balance.

Cheers
Sauman

darren leonadas
25th August 2006, 01:21 PM
Dumpster diving a liposuction clinic - sounds a bit like Fight Club (for those who have seen it. For those who have not and make biodiesel, or soap, you must see it, you'll get the parallels) ;)
The first rule of Biodiesel Club is "Do not talk about Biodiesel Club". The second rule of Biodiesel Club is "Do not talk about Biodiesel Club"...

Of course, you could always ask a liposuction clinic, they may just consent (with patient approval) and it could make some great publicity. This guy here in NZ (http://www.earthrace.net/view.asp?webpage=1228) has done just that for his round the world boat trip.
Robert, Your cybor nose never ceases to amaze me:cool: (earthrace) Thats another one i'll be appropriating for the MBDC site.;) ;) :)
The caustic burns in "fight club" are a little over dramatised, Mine dont look nearly that bad, Bloody painful though. (the melbourne biodiesel club does not recomend failing to follow OH&S proceedure when working with KoH. Rule #3)

Sauman
25th August 2006, 04:54 PM
G Day Matt,
You are right that FFA of animal fat may not be much higher then WVO.
But all that depends on the source of fat and environment .As exposure to water ,moisture causes hydrolysis and ffa increases.
Same like the case with vegetable oil used for cooking when it comes in contact with steam during the cooking process.
If you are happy with ffa values about 5 that that is cool.I am sorry I had my Industrial or commercial cap on when I made that comment.For in the BD industry the ffa limit is 0.5 to ensure process dynamics and standardisation of process parameters.

That is why hydrogenation is done in the Industry to super saturate the animal fats and then mixed with other feed stock of low ffa to arrive at 0.5 ffa max.
With regarss to liposuction.Hmm.....thats definetly a place to shop around for fat.Would be interesting if someone from the forum rocked up to one of the clinic and asked for the fat.Wander wether there will be prize tag for it.For they charge I am told an arm and a leg for the liposuction process.

Cheers
Sauman

RASTEVE
25th August 2006, 08:11 PM
I wonder what the best feedstock for fattening humans is...

Sauman
25th August 2006, 08:36 PM
I wonder what the best feedstock for fattening humans is...

Sending humans to the parliament house will definetly be a way to increase obesity.Like 50lbs each month.
Watch main stream media for 4 hours a day is another.20lbs each month
Sending some one to the US senate will put on 100LBS OF PURE FAT IN A WEEK.

Take your choice.Life is full of choices.:cool:
Cheers
Sauman

David
26th August 2006, 12:33 PM
Its a fantasy of ours to dumpster dive a lyposuction clinic. Imagine telling people "my car runs on the arse of Fat people.":D :D :eek:
I think I am about to throw Up!

It's one thing to be up to your elbows in grease and grot from the local take away, quite another to be messing round with human guts.

When it becomes that hard to find a source of oil for Bio production that medical waste becomes an option, I'll be converting to gas even if I have to make it from pig droppings! :rolleyes:

Anyone know how the guy got on that was looking at making bio from Beeswax? That seems an interesting and far more pleasant source of Bio feedstock. I reckon that you would need so many bees to get enough wax to make a useful amount of bio, you'd be looking at converting the honey just so you wouldn't be drowning in the stuff! :D

Chris
26th August 2006, 07:19 PM
Anyone know how the guy got on that was looking at making bio from Beeswax? I reckon that you would need so many bees to get enough wax to make a useful amount of bio, you'd be looking at converting the honey just so you wouldn't be drowning in the stuff! :D
Hi David
Mate it takes bees about 6.5 Kg of honey to converted that to 1 KG of wax
At the present the price of honey is about $3.00 per KG wholesale while the price of beeswax hovers around the $6.50 mark
That is for information only so as to keep up my end of the stick in the game as a beekeeper (part time)
The guy that converted it to biodiesel most likely did for the fun of it, just like the liposuction fellow
The first one is a very useful item, the second I would have thought is just "Human Waste"
Cheers
Chris

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Jacka
26th August 2006, 07:25 PM
The liposusction one is possibly also a human medical waste's issue! I am sure it would have a % of blood in it and other contaminates that would make it a biological waste and require some strick measures to ensure it disposal.

Intresting to see that tallow has a load more Umph as Richard puts it. Not sure though I would run 100% tallow in my 12 month old rodeo just yet though ;) Need to be able to source a stable supply of b100 out of veg oils and that is proving a challange just at the moment :( moving house is always a costly affair. Oh well.

tillyfromparadise
27th August 2006, 10:27 AM
Tallow contains no more FFA's than Veggie oil
New tallow fryer oil such as Frytol or Red Band will have an FFA content near 0.

Most of the shops in ลึก ประเทศอินเด use either Tallow or Palm oil in their fryers.
I have made lots of biodiesel from tallow. Much of this tallow titrated between 1 and 2. Making biodiesel from tallow uses the exact same procedure as any other type of oil.

The "down side" of tallow biodiesel is it's high freeze temp of around 17deg C and tha fact that if you use NaOH there is always lots of detritus floating around in the freshly made biodiesel and gel formation from the soap is always on the cards. One should always wash biodiesel made from high Tallow oil for this reason iuf you used NaOH in the reaction.
Another problem is that you can not "Skimp" on methanol to any great degree because this will leave unconverted tallow which will freeze at an even higher temperature.

Tilly

John H
29th August 2006, 05:37 PM
Hi All,
Tilly
Could you tell me if the "World Famous Dr. Pepper Method" (World Patent Pending) will make test batches with tallow with the same method as for vegetable oil.
Made a 1Lt sample from Blended /vegetable oil (Woolworths) turned out perfect (Your cheque is in the mail). Tried a couple of tests with this tallow? from fish and chip shop, tritated very high if I did it right, two bottles of goop. I seems to cool down to quickly and solidify do you have to keep it warm throught the reaction ?

Regards
JohnH

spud
2nd September 2006, 03:45 AM
Ditto for me, Ive tried the Dr Pepper with new oil, and now have some "FRYTOL" to use. I live in a warm climate, but would love some specific info for using this feedstock?

darren leonadas
3rd September 2006, 12:46 PM
Frytol, Solid at room temp. fryer medium makes great biodiesel. Do yourselves a favour and buy from any Chefs shop, Homemaker or Hostpitality store, a small and cheap ($10) but perfectly suited thermometer. Normally used for capucino milk frothing, it has a "red line" range printed on the dial, between 60 and 80 degrees C. The exact range of boiling milk and vaporising alcohol.
Do the Coke bottle method after microwaving the frytol to liquid , then stick in the thermometer and wait 'till the frytol cools to below 60-55 degrees. Then add your methoxide.
Interestingly this temp range of boiling milk and vaporizing alcohol is also the temp range where the biodiesel reaction best happens , And the temp range where the human hand goes from feeling the heat to getting burned. So if your too cheap to buy a ($10) thermometer, use your hands to hold the coke bottle, If its right on that point between too hot to hold and just feeling mighty "Chefs hands" Hot. Thats the range where the frytol needs to be. Wait for it to cool further, near going solid again, and you will get a dodgy result. By spending the $10 on a thermometer, you can be more sure of not vaporising the methoxide. A potentially dangerous and frighteningly uncontrollable experience. (boiling point of alcohol = approximately 65 C, depending on ambient temp. and altitude).
(Coke bottle/Dr. Pepper method = same same).

darren leonadas
3rd September 2006, 01:02 PM
I wonder what the best feedstock for fattening humans is...
Double Malted BEER!!!!;) !
My Mum was given Stout, by Doctors, when i was embrionic, Now I can"t live without a good stout to feel full:D :D :D :D

Chris
4th September 2006, 11:53 AM
Darren
This fattening up receipe is not working on you man
I think you should up your Malt intake a bit, Coopers is the go
The yellow ones
Cheers
Chris