Titrations - Can I use Metho or Methanol?

[Steve-Kal Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Steve-Kal]

I am currently building a bio plant.

I have collected 200L of WVO and want to do a Dr.Pepper test batch.

For the titration of the WVO I have a procedure that specifies IPA (Isopropyl Alcohol - don't know where to buy this) and pheonol red (from a pool shop).

Can I use methalated spirits (from Bunnings etc.) or methanol (as used for the production of biodiesel) for the titration instead of the IPA?

If anyone has a procedure using either methalated spirits or methanol please could you mail it to me - (ADMIN EDIT: removed to spam spiders harvesting the address - use personal profile to directly contact Steve, or otherwise, just post a response)

Thanks,

Steve

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: Titrations - Can I use Metho or Methanol?

Hello Steve

Yes, you can use any of the three alcohols you named.
You use them in the same way.
Methylated spirits is the one I recommend because it is not a contact poison.
I find Turmeric "Nicer" to use than Phenol red.
For the easiest method of titrating you can not beat the World famous Chopstick Titration Technique (Pat Pend)

Tilly

[Robert Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Robert]

Re: Titrations - Can I use Metho or Methanol?

Steve - I've removed your email address from the post, as you'd be surprised how fast spam scripts will harvest your address from a public website. If people want to contact you, they can email you via your profile on this site, which will provide a form to hide your email address, but still let real people contact you.
Anyway, you would be better to ask people to post the information here in this thread so that others can also benefit from it.
If anyone does have info on this, please post it.

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: Titrations - Can I use Metho or Methanol?

Hello gwalker

Keep the titrating fluid in a closed bottle and it will last a long time (months or a year even). If in doubt make some fresh.

There should be no problem microwaving the ethanol, ethanol does not produce vapours like gasoline. Just watch for the first bubble and go no further.

I read your doc and there is one a mistake, the correct amount of KOH to use in the titrating fluid is 1g, not 1.4.

I would change the heading "Colouring the Indicator" to "Adding the Indicator"
Also, when you do the "Blank Titration" it is more about Neutralizing any acid that may have developed in the alcohol rather than in the indicator.

Tilly

[gwalker Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close gwalker]

Re: Titrations - Can I use Metho or Methanol?

Hello gwalker

Keep the titrating fluid in a closed bottle and it will last a long time (months or a year even). If in doubt make some fresh.

There should be no problem microwaving the ethanol, ethanol does not produce vapours like gasoline. Just watch for the first bubble and go no further.

I read your doc and there is one a mistake, the correct amount of KOH to use in the titrating fluid is 1g, not 1.4.

I would change the heading "Colouring the Indicator" to "Adding the Indicator"
Also, when you do the "Blank Titration" it is more about Neutralizing any acid that may have developed in the alcohol rather than in the indicator.

Tilly

Tilly, I've corrected the amount of KOH and added your suggestions. The new doc is attached.
G

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: Titrations - Can I use Metho or Methanol?

Hello gwalker

It looks good.

Tilly

[chookshed Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close chookshed]

Re: Titrations - Can I use Metho or Methanol?

A very important point raised by Tilly.

The titrant, the fluid used for the titration, either made from NaOH or KOH should be made fresh from the KOH or NaOH you are going to use in the batch of fuel.

The reason for this is that KOH and NaOH and the solutions of the same will absorb CO2 from the atmosphere. The CO2 gradually neautralises the the caustic forming NaHCO3 or KHCO3 in your NaOH or KOH.
When this happens you need more of the caustic to get the same oomph, ie level of -OH as catalyst.

One problem with absorbed CO2 is that the base 5(NaOH) or 7(KOH)grams pending the chemical is compromised and unless you have access to a lab it is hard to determine how much CO2 has been absorbed.

Atleast when making the titrant fresh you are adding the correct amount of caustic to neutralise the FFA's.

If you can keep everything away from air than ofcourse you don't need to make fresh solution.

cheers

Steve.

[gwalker Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close gwalker]

Re: Titrations - Can I use Metho or Methanol?

..the correct amount of KOH to use in the titrating fluid is 1g, not 1.4.
Tilly

I didn't understand this bit as I assumed that you would need the same proportion as in the base for the test!
eg base 7gm per L - so why not the same proportion for the titration test, ie 1.4g for 100ml?