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Hi All, I've been having an interesting email conversation with a farmy type BD user from Geraldton (innisfail). I put it in this forum as its concerned partly with use but also with manufacturing. So its all listed below. Enjoy.
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----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Morgan
To: crew*****au
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 10:36 AM
Subject: bd
Are you still making/using biodiesel. I'm from QLD. I got your email from the infopop web forum.
Regards
Joe Morgan
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-----Original Message-----
From: chris
Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2005 6:55 PM
To: Joseph Morgan
Subject: Re: bd
yes joe i am..do you need advice on making it??
there are a few in geraldton that do it..and the farmers are into it/
cheers chris
*********************************************
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Morgan
To: chris
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 6:16 AM
Subject: RE: bd
I have been doing a few small test batches. I have some oil and want to make a 20 litre processor. There is a australian webforum that has started up that I thought you might be interested in. its http://www.biofuelsforum.com/. We could do with some people who are making/using and have real life experience with it.
So what method are you using. What size batches are you doing. Where do you get your oil from.
Joe
*********************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: chris
Sent: Thursday, 8 December 2005 9:21 AM
To: Joseph Morgan
Subject: Re: bd
hey joe..
yes there used to be a great forum a few years ago but it all dissapeared wen they said they were going to tax it ..hahah
i run a fj 60 land cruiser,,ive done about 70 000 km on un washed bd..
my meathod is simple some people get to complicated..ive been through all that and talked to the armcahir chemists ect..
my oil is waste cotton seed oil from a local takeaway food shop..its called formula 40 it all cotton seed ..i dont use tallow or animal fat at all..i pay them $2 for a 20lt drum..
i get about 200 lt per month..
ok my reactor is a 200 lt drum with a foot square hole cut in the top,ive peened the bottom to a slite coneand welded a elbow and ball valve to drain the glycerine..
its on legs and has a 80 lt hws heating element in the side to warm the oil.
i make 160 lt at a time heat it up to about 50 c then add the metthanol and caustic at a rate of 20% meth and 5 grams per litere caustic.i use a 20 lt metal tin and a air drill and stirrir to mix.i dont titrate as the oil is pretty much the same and that seems to work for me..
to react it i uste a polly pipe tee with holes in it and hook it to my compressor put a lid on the drum and bubble it violently for about 15 min..lots of fumes so dont do it in a backyard shed..i have 2 large sheds and plenty of vent..
i then leave it for about 2 hrs then d\rain the gly off while its still liquid..next few days i use a small turbine pump and a foot valve to pump it out from the top through a 5 micron filter sock u get from a pool shop into drums..
let it settle for as long as u can as gravity drags out any **** like glycerine to the bottom..
i dont wash as its to time consuming..just chang your fuel filter every service at about 7000km for 15 dollars.
carry a spare just in case..i drain my primary filter under the car every time i fill the tank ..the unwashed will clog your fuel filter eventuarily is about the only drw back..
all hoses and fittings are pvc and clear plastic tube..
anyway ill send u some pics..
get from fryer to fuel tank by joshua tickell..its a good hand book..
ok cheers chris
*********************************************
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Morgan
To: chris
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 8:09 AM
Subject: RE: bd
Thanks for mailing back and taking the time to elaborate on what you have been doing.
Incidently do you recover any methanol from the glycerine? You should be able to recover 1 litre of methanol for every 5 litres of glycerine. You can use a simple condensor design and heat the glycerine to about 65 degrees which is the bioling point of methanol. Sounds like your methods are sound however. I would debate however the use of washing the bd. I can understand that maybe you have water issues. You can use a bubble wash and bubble dry in the same way that you mix the oil and methoxide mixture. However that can create a bit of soap. Interesting about the 5 micron filter sock. I was wondering where along the process I should filter. Thats a great suggestion.
The amount of caustic you are using sounds a low to be honest. I would think using 5 as a base (not 3.5 as has long been preached) including titration anywhere between 1.5 - 3.5grams would put you at about 7grams per litre. You may not be getting complete conversion. Which might leave glycerides in your bd which might be a problem particularly if you aren't washing. But I guess if you are changing filters as regularly as that then not much will be getting in to the engine.
Was the forum that you spoke of an Aussie forum or a US forum. I think I got your name from the infopop.cc forum which is still going strong.
Cheers
joe
*********************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: chris
Sent: Thursday, 8 December 2005 2:40 PM
To: Joseph Morgan
Subject: Re: bd
yes joe..
like i said keep it simple..i havent got the time to recover methanol..at present its costing me 30c per litere to make..
i know all about the bubble method and i came up with a mist meathod but to be honest its easier to change filters than wash ..ive had b locked filters on my turbo camry from washed bd..your aware you can run on strtaight veggy oil without much problem just have to heat it to get the viscosity down ,if so it must burn all the glycerine so in my opinion you dont have to wash..ive heard it all before from the armchair chemists but unfortunatley its generally from people who havent made any..
i have spoken to people who have done 200 000 km on unwashed bd..and ive been running it for 5 years.so wash if you want but its double time..
i will try upping the caustic but you gotta be carefull as too much will produce foaties in it and then you will have to wash it and it wont be fun filtering it..
ok thaks for the info..
cheers chris
*********************************************
Yeah point taken. I have to admit I am an armchair chemist but I'm learning fast. And like you said you can run on straight WVO so there must be glycerines in there. I think a lot of the newer users are trying to run clean washed bd in their new rangerovers which generally are a little over engineered. The older engines are more tolerant. 30c/l is good. You must be buying 200ltr drums of methanol. What do you get them for?
Also where did you get info from in the early days. That book that you spoke of is well regarded. I must get a copy.
Cheers
Joe
*********************************************
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Morgan
To: crew*****au
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 10:36 AM
Subject: bd
Are you still making/using biodiesel. I'm from QLD. I got your email from the infopop web forum.
Regards
Joe Morgan
*********************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: chris
Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2005 6:55 PM
To: Joseph Morgan
Subject: Re: bd
yes joe i am..do you need advice on making it??
there are a few in geraldton that do it..and the farmers are into it/
cheers chris
*********************************************
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Morgan
To: chris
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 6:16 AM
Subject: RE: bd
I have been doing a few small test batches. I have some oil and want to make a 20 litre processor. There is a australian webforum that has started up that I thought you might be interested in. its http://www.biofuelsforum.com/. We could do with some people who are making/using and have real life experience with it.
So what method are you using. What size batches are you doing. Where do you get your oil from.
Joe
*********************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: chris
Sent: Thursday, 8 December 2005 9:21 AM
To: Joseph Morgan
Subject: Re: bd
hey joe..
yes there used to be a great forum a few years ago but it all dissapeared wen they said they were going to tax it ..hahah
i run a fj 60 land cruiser,,ive done about 70 000 km on un washed bd..
my meathod is simple some people get to complicated..ive been through all that and talked to the armcahir chemists ect..
my oil is waste cotton seed oil from a local takeaway food shop..its called formula 40 it all cotton seed ..i dont use tallow or animal fat at all..i pay them $2 for a 20lt drum..
i get about 200 lt per month..
ok my reactor is a 200 lt drum with a foot square hole cut in the top,ive peened the bottom to a slite coneand welded a elbow and ball valve to drain the glycerine..
its on legs and has a 80 lt hws heating element in the side to warm the oil.
i make 160 lt at a time heat it up to about 50 c then add the metthanol and caustic at a rate of 20% meth and 5 grams per litere caustic.i use a 20 lt metal tin and a air drill and stirrir to mix.i dont titrate as the oil is pretty much the same and that seems to work for me..
to react it i uste a polly pipe tee with holes in it and hook it to my compressor put a lid on the drum and bubble it violently for about 15 min..lots of fumes so dont do it in a backyard shed..i have 2 large sheds and plenty of vent..
i then leave it for about 2 hrs then d\rain the gly off while its still liquid..next few days i use a small turbine pump and a foot valve to pump it out from the top through a 5 micron filter sock u get from a pool shop into drums..
let it settle for as long as u can as gravity drags out any **** like glycerine to the bottom..
i dont wash as its to time consuming..just chang your fuel filter every service at about 7000km for 15 dollars.
carry a spare just in case..i drain my primary filter under the car every time i fill the tank ..the unwashed will clog your fuel filter eventuarily is about the only drw back..
all hoses and fittings are pvc and clear plastic tube..
anyway ill send u some pics..
get from fryer to fuel tank by joshua tickell..its a good hand book..
ok cheers chris
*********************************************
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Morgan
To: chris
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 8:09 AM
Subject: RE: bd
Thanks for mailing back and taking the time to elaborate on what you have been doing.
Incidently do you recover any methanol from the glycerine? You should be able to recover 1 litre of methanol for every 5 litres of glycerine. You can use a simple condensor design and heat the glycerine to about 65 degrees which is the bioling point of methanol. Sounds like your methods are sound however. I would debate however the use of washing the bd. I can understand that maybe you have water issues. You can use a bubble wash and bubble dry in the same way that you mix the oil and methoxide mixture. However that can create a bit of soap. Interesting about the 5 micron filter sock. I was wondering where along the process I should filter. Thats a great suggestion.
The amount of caustic you are using sounds a low to be honest. I would think using 5 as a base (not 3.5 as has long been preached) including titration anywhere between 1.5 - 3.5grams would put you at about 7grams per litre. You may not be getting complete conversion. Which might leave glycerides in your bd which might be a problem particularly if you aren't washing. But I guess if you are changing filters as regularly as that then not much will be getting in to the engine.
Was the forum that you spoke of an Aussie forum or a US forum. I think I got your name from the infopop.cc forum which is still going strong.
Cheers
joe
*********************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: chris
Sent: Thursday, 8 December 2005 2:40 PM
To: Joseph Morgan
Subject: Re: bd
yes joe..
like i said keep it simple..i havent got the time to recover methanol..at present its costing me 30c per litere to make..
i know all about the bubble method and i came up with a mist meathod but to be honest its easier to change filters than wash ..ive had b locked filters on my turbo camry from washed bd..your aware you can run on strtaight veggy oil without much problem just have to heat it to get the viscosity down ,if so it must burn all the glycerine so in my opinion you dont have to wash..ive heard it all before from the armchair chemists but unfortunatley its generally from people who havent made any..
i have spoken to people who have done 200 000 km on unwashed bd..and ive been running it for 5 years.so wash if you want but its double time..
i will try upping the caustic but you gotta be carefull as too much will produce foaties in it and then you will have to wash it and it wont be fun filtering it..
ok thaks for the info..
cheers chris
*********************************************
Yeah point taken. I have to admit I am an armchair chemist but I'm learning fast. And like you said you can run on straight WVO so there must be glycerines in there. I think a lot of the newer users are trying to run clean washed bd in their new rangerovers which generally are a little over engineered. The older engines are more tolerant. 30c/l is good. You must be buying 200ltr drums of methanol. What do you get them for?
Also where did you get info from in the early days. That book that you spoke of is well regarded. I must get a copy.
Cheers
Joe