40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

[250downunder]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

"A lot of mechanics when they see a problem (and we can all attest to this) even entirely remote to the fuel system, will be told the old adage "well thats the crap fuel youve been runnning. You wont make another 1000 ks on that sh.t". 0

And a lot of the time they are right! Hastily made Bio, sometimes unwashed or at best, poorly washed and dried, is often the culprit. Remember, they only see problems associated with the running of Bio. They don't see injector pumps that have been run for many years on carefully processed Bio because they don't have problems.

[peter1]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

One of our WA mob is in China at the moment, helping them produce Biodiesel and getting supply and plant sorted to replace big diesel gensets in big hotels in Africa. He was talking about how much more advanced China is with digesters and alternative fuelling. Might be worth seeing what Dr Google comes up with if you can poke around China for a bit.

Is there a waste oil source in africa?
I would imagine the hotels don't generate nearly enough to fuel their generators for any worthwhile percentage so where does the balance come from? In a place where food or fuel really would be an issue, I hardly see this as any sort of feather in veg fuels cap.
The reality is that Bio is more harm to the environment on commercial levels that just using plain fossil fuels. Apart from sourcing the oil and what is invested in the production of that, the Chemicals which are also oil linked and the energy to produce it make it about a 1:1 proposition at very best.

Given the energy and resources invested in making the stuff and the questionable waste and leftovers in the entire production chain, Bio is still not in anyway anything but a detriment on a commercial level.
What your friend would be a lot better doing is working to make a processor from the Hotels waste.
There are numerous feed sources being garbage and food scraps for a start which could produce gas very effectively in a warm country.

To keep pushing Biofuels IMHO is a detriment to the environment. Sure its easy but it's far from the best alternative by a long shot. Oil is limited, garbage is certainly not. Making more oil is highly detrimental to the planet if you look at it as a whole. Removing or recycling garbage certainly is not and has 100 times more direct and flow on benefits that Veg fuels could ever dream of.

There is a fortune waiting to be made for someone to come up with a garbage to fuel processor which would not be out of the realm of having one at home for the majority of people if it were developed right I don't think.

[tillyfromparadise]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

Too late Michael. In episoe 7 they found the Mountain of best quality WVO hidden in the Charleville Tip.

Just don't tell anyone where the good oil is located.

Michael

[bob@thegreenwayup.com]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

Now that we're on to constructive talk about renewable fuels. Looking at an option other than biodiesel; let me share this link with you. I'm sure most of you have seen this, but I hadn't when I was doing my research before the GWU trip; using biomass to power a vehicle. Now I'm not condoning this fuel source, or encouraging it's use, or saying it's great, etc etc - let this be a completely neutral post from me. I'm just saying that I briefly looked at it as an option - but found bio better suited for us.

The biggest problem I saw with using a wood gas generator was regulating the process. We weren't gonna be just highway driving; we had cities to deal with and countries with extreme traffic to deal with - our engine revs would be all over the place. Although possible, trying to match the rate of gasification with the avg engine consumption requirement was going to be difficult. Yes you can regulate the process, but there is a definite and long lag between command and response - with a road vehicle, by the time your command setting has been reached you're most likely going to require another...

However, I did look at biomass as a possibility for the boat we built - putting in an old petrol motor instead of going bio (yes, we should have taken a sail boat - but done before and too boring for telly - and most likely wouldn't attract enough criticism in online forums...) For our boat crossing, we would have required pretty constant engine revs, thus giving biomass decent potential.. However, on our planned leg from Darwin to Indonesia I roughly calculated that we'd need 265kg of wood + the apparatus... too much, idea thrown out.

Here's some thoughts I put down a couple of years ago if you're interested to read... (please don't pull it to pieces, just thoughts I had evaluating the possibility of biomass... not proof read)

Energy from Biomass. The gasification process can be used to convert wood, amongst other organic carbonaceous materials, into carbon monoxide, hydrogen, methane and carbon dioxide. This mixture of gas, known as syngas, can be used to power an internal combustion engine. Commonly known as a Wood Gas Generator, this biomass power plant has a history of successfully powering vehicles used in specific applications, predominantly in vehicles delivering relatively constant power output, such as tractors. This power plant is not reliant on fossil fuels, provides fuel for most Otto Cycle engines, delivers high efficiency and is clean burning. However, one major drawback of using gasification to power motor vehicles is the inability to stop/start the process and the slow reaction times to power output commands. This makes powering a standard vehicle by gasification very difficult, given the constant fluctuations in engine revolutions per minute and changing engine load requirements. This system also requires approximately 2840 KJ of energy to power a standard vehicle 1 km, or approximately 310 grams of wood per kilometre. Applying this rough approximation to the longest sea leg on the Green Way Up route of 240 NM, 265 Kg of wood (including 20% contingency) would be required to provide sufficient endurance. With the addition of the gasification system, this load is impractical for the expedition vessel. Biomass offers other sources of energy impractical for an expedition, these include:

• The Fischer–Tropsch process can be used to convert syngas into liquid fuel. However, this would require a separate system in addition to the wood gas generator, already determined impractical. The generic name for this fuel is Renewable Diesel.
• Anaerobic Digestion produces a biogas (predominantly methane and carbon dioxide) from biodegradable material which can subsequently be used to power turbines. However, this process yields relatively low amounts of energy per weight volume, thus making it impractical for use on a vehicle.

[tillyfromparadise]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

Hi Bob,
I think they are talking more along the lines of thermal depolymerization

Or you could always store the wood gas in a bag

[SUZUDDIS]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

I'm not sure if it's the roaring fire, the red wine or the pictures but that looks funny.
Now we're talking. for some reason Hindenburg came to mind.

not a hilux or Landy but I'm sure brown gas and a Landy look just as funny. A hilux should be able to carry 265 KG's of wood ????

Enjoy the fantastic weekend .
Michael

[Tim-HJ61]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

As a moderator, all we ask is that the discussions don't descend into personal acrimony and insults and stick to the theme of the forum. Labouring the point is only heading the wrong way.

Critiquing an attempt by a group of keen Gen y's to "start a conversation with their peers" as I recall Bob called it, is stretching the boundaries of the purpose of the forum.
Critiquing the technical aspects of a group of keen Gen Y's wanting to drive from Tassie to Norway on BioFuel IS within the boundaries of the forum.

We've all got different reasons for being interested in biofuel - some purely environmental, some purely economic, some purely technical and all variations in between. Accept the differences - at the end of the day we all mess around with oil and cars, that's a common thread.

The last thing I want to be bothered with is to shut down the discussion or start giving time outs. Just keep it civil, non harping, respectful and accommodating of difference.

I posted this on 26th July in this thread.

A couple of recent posts have been deleted for breaching this earlier gentle reminder.

If you want to give your opinion about the business aspect of this thread, PM whoever you think needs to know your opinion or answer your questions.

Keep comments on the forum civil.

Tim
Moderator