Warnqvest Conversion Test (3/27 27/3)

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Warnqvest Conversion Test (3/27 27/3)

The Warnqvest Conversion test has become the De Facto Standard to which a large number of home brewers are now attempting to make their biodiesel


Jan Warnqvist's Conversion Test
This is a quick Pass/Fail conversion test for your biodiesel and works because biodiesel will disolve into methanol while triglycerides do not disolve in methanol.
It works with washed and dried, or unwashed biodiesel that is well settled.

Equipment needed

1. Something to measure out 27 ml of methanol.
2. A small container in which to put the 27ml of methanol. I used a small glass jar about 11cm (4.5”) high and 5cm (2.5”) across
3. A 3ml syringe without the sharp. These cost me 15c each from my pharmacy and I used a new one for each test.
4. Biodiesel to be tested.

Procedure
1. Insure the jar is spotlessly clean and dry.
2. Put 27ml of room temperature methanol into the jar.
3. Use the syringe to put exactly 3ml of the biodiesel under test into the methanol.
4. Put top on Jar.
5. Shake jar hard for 5 seconds.

If the biodiesel completely dissolves into the methanol and no oil settles out on the bottom of the container you have very high conversion biodiesel.

Further GC Testing by RickDaTech shows:
"There have been a number of posts lately where people observed cloudiness even when they made high conversion fuel. In one case the sample failed for cloudiness, but passed GC testing for total glycerin. In addition I've found in my own testing that a number of variables combined influence the cloudiness.

Precipitation alone is enough of a test and it does raise the bar considerably. From my tests, it appears that if there is no precipitation, then the odds are in favor of the fuel meeting ASTM spec for bound glycerin. Also if there is precipitation, then you are highly unlikely to meet ASTM spec for bound glycerin."
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Look Here Jan Warnqvist's Conversion Test- Outstanding! - Topic Powered by eve community for the copmplete discussion thread on the Infopop forum

Tilly

[Robert Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Robert]

Re: Warnqvest Conversion Test (3/27 27/3)

Great info Tilly. Thanks for posting it here, I'm sure it will be useful to many.

I've moved it into this "Making Biodiesel" forum and out of the general discussion area, as I don't want it getting lost too easily and I think it may be more appropriate in here. Now, speaking of not getting lost, if you like this thread, don't forget to rate it, so that others can see people think this is useful when they scan the list.

If this warrants enough discussion and anyone has any ways of suggesting this forum gets re-organised to make info easier to find when browsing (especially for newcomers), please let me know. I was initially thinking of making a sub forum under this one for biodiesel testing and putting threads like this one as a sticky at the top.

[pangit Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close pangit]

Re: Warnqvest Conversion Test (3/27 27/3)

I've rated it, but I also think it should be a sticky, otherwise it will get lost.

[Robert Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Robert]

Re: Warnqvest Conversion Test (3/27 27/3)

Ask and ye shall receive. I've now stuck it. (Does anyone think a separate testing area inside the "making" forum is a good or a bad idea?)

[pangit Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close pangit]

Re: Warnqvest Conversion Test (3/27 27/3)

Thanks! Personally I don't think a testing sub-forum is necessary, at least not yet.

[charris Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close charris]

Re: Warnqvest Conversion Test (3/27 27/3)

Anybody know what an acceptable level of triglyceride contaminents is? I carried out a Warnqvest test on a sample and came up with about 1% of contaminents. On the same topic: what's the white fluffy stuff resulting from the same test using a test sample washed with H3PO4X1%?

charris

[charris Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close charris]

Re: Warnqvest Conversion Test (3/27 27/3)

Hello Tilly, my name is Chris Harris and I'm afraid I do not know much about posting questions on forums and whatnot so please excuse me if I'm being annoying.

I have taken up the business of making biodiesel but I'm having a few problems.

I have only got one batch to come out right.

My problem is this: I made a second batch of 200 ltrs but the Warnqvist test shows that there is something amis. There is "something" settling out in the bottom of the sample and I do not know what it is. When I performed another titration (using isopropanol 27ml, 2 drops of phenol red and 3ml of the processed oil, it turned pink immediately so to me, that indicates that there are no triglycerides in the batch. Could be wrong and probably am. What do you think I should try next?

Hope you may be able to help as I would hate to chuck it all out.

Regards Charris

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: Warnqvest Conversion Test (3/27 27/3)

Hello Chris, welcome to the Exciting World of Biodiesel!

Where did you learn how to titrate!
For the easiest method of titrating you can not beat the The World Famous Chopstick Titration Technique (Pat Pend) - Topic Powered by eve community

Did the something that settled out in the warnqvest test look like little beads of oil? That is a fail.
Do you wish to make biodiesel that passes the Warnqvesat test?
If you do you will need to re-process the biodiesel.
What type of car will you use it in and is it a direct or indirect injection diesel?
A titration detects Acids NOT triglycerides. So a titration tells you nothing important about your biodiesel.

Tell us all about how you made your biodiesel in metric measure including:
Total WVO reacted
Total methanol used
Titration of the oil
Total NaOH/KOH used
Type of reactor
Temperature of reaction
Total time for reaction
and anything else that you may think is important.

Tilly

[charris Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close charris]

Re: Warnqvest Conversion Test (3/27 27/3)

Hello Tilly,

I subscribed to this er, thread I guess you call it but when I replied to your email I guess I sent it to the wrong place. Someone sent a rather terse reply. Sorry.

In reply to your questions I have replied as accurately as possible.

Where did you learn how to titrate! Well...ah yes...Slight error there. For the titration process I disolved exactly one gram of NAOH in exactly one ltr of distilled water then measured out exactly ten mils of Isopropropyl alcohol into a beaker. Then I added exactly one mil of oil to the Isopropyl alcohol and stirred it till it disolved. Then I added two drops of phenol red and sloshed that around till it went vaguely yellow. Then I started adding the 1:1000 NAOH with a graduated eye dropper, one drop at a time until the colour turned pink and stayed pink. I did write the result down somewhere but I have since lost it. I am resaonably certain that the colour change occurred after I added about 1,2 mils of NAOH. I worked out that I would have to measure out 6.2 grams of NAOH per litre of oil. That would have come to 1.2 kilo's.(Which I then disolved into 40 ltrs of methanol.)
> For the easiest method of titrating you can not beat the The World Famous Chopstick Titration Technique (Pat Pend) - Topic Powered by eve community (http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/719605551/m/9541092001)
>
> Did the something that settled out in the warnqvest test look like little beads of oil? That is a fail. Yes. It looked like oil. (I also tested the first batch and noticed that whilst I did not get an oil residue I did produce a white fluffy looking substance but the first batch was made using the acid / base method.)

> Do you wish to make biodiesel that passes the Warnqvesat test? Yes, I think so. I would like to make it as pure as possible. I thought that seeing as I had spent several hundred dollars on tanks, pumps and things, I may as well do it properly.
> If you do you will need to re-process the biodiesel.

> What type of car will you use it in and is it a direct or indirect injection diesel? I believe that the engine in my truck is an indirectly injected diesel. (Holden Rodeo Turbo.)

> A titration detects Acids NOT triglycerides. So a titration tells you nothing important about your biodiesel. OK.
>
> Tell us all about how you made your biodiesel in metric measure including: .I pumped 200 litres of liquified chip fat into a bottom drained reactor vessel with cone on the bottom and heated it to 55 degrees Celcius.

> Total WVO reacted. 200 litres.

> Total methanol used 40 litres.

> Titration of the oil 1.2 mils. (As I remember it.)

> Total NaOH/KOH used 1.2 Kilo's.

> Type of reactor. 200 ltr drum with a bottom drained cone with a recirculating pump.

> Temperature of reaction 55 degrees C plus or minus a few degrees either side

> Total time for reaction I maintained the temperature more or less constant at 55 degrees for an hour then let the batch cool down by itself. I kept the pump on for the first hour to keep the oil and sodium methoxide agitating.

> and anything else that you may think is important. I checked the purity of the NAOH as best I could to ensure that it had not degraded into what ever it degrades into. The granules were a sort of whitish translucent colour.

That's about it Tilly. The colour of the batch looks about right if the photo's on the internet are anything to go by. It is a pale golden colour. As soon as I perform the warnqvesat test, [(Please excuse my spelling of it) Thats the one with 27 mils of methanol and 3mils of oil right?] the methanol goes milky and oil starts to settle out.. Hope you can help

Regards charris

[charris Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close charris]

Re: Warnqvest Conversion Test (3/27 27/3)

Hello Tilly,

I have answered your questions as best I could:

Where did you learn how to titrate! Well...ah yes...Slight error there. For the titration process I disolved exactly one gram of NAOH in exactly one ltr of distilled water then measured out exactly ten mils of Isopropropyl alcohol into a beaker. Then I added exactly one mil of oil to the Isopropyl alcohol and stirred it till it disolved. Then I added two drops of phenol red and sloshed that around till it went vaguely yellow. Then I started adding the 1:1000 NAOH with a graduated eye dropper, one drop at a time until the colour turned pink and stayed pink. I did write the result down somewhere but I have since lost it. I am resaonably certain that the colour change occurred after I added about 1,2 mils of NAOH. I worked out that I would have to measure out 6.2 grams of NAOH per litre of oil. That would have come to 1.2 kilo's.(Which I then disolved into 40 ltrs of methanol.)
> For the easiest method of titrating you can not beat the The World Famous Chopstick Titration Technique (Pat Pend) - Topic Powered by eve community (http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/719605551/m/9541092001)
>
> Did the something that settled out in the warnqvest test look like little beads of oil? That is a fail. Yes. It looked like oil. (I also tested the first batch and noticed that whilst I did not get an oil residue I did produce a white fluffy looking substance but the first batch was made using the acid / base method.)

> Do you wish to make biodiesel that passes the Warnqvesat test? Yes, I think so. I would like to make it as pure as possible. I thought that seeing as I had spent several hundred dollars on tanks, pumps and things, I may as well do it properly.
> If you do you will need to re-process the biodiesel.

> What type of car will you use it in and is it a direct or indirect injection diesel? I believe that the engine in my truck is an indirectly injected diesel. (Holden Rodeo Turbo.)

> A titration detects Acids NOT triglycerides. So a titration tells you nothing important about your biodiesel. OK.
>
> Tell us all about how you made your biodiesel in metric measure including: .I pumped 200 litres of liquified chip fat into a bottom drained reactor vessel with cone on the bottom and heated it to 55 degrees Celcius.

> Total WVO reacted. 200 litres.

> Total methanol used 40 litres.

> Titration of the oil 1.2 mils. (As I remember it.)

> Total NaOH/KOH used 1.2 Kilo's.

> Type of reactor. 200 ltr drum with a bottom drained cone with a recirculating pump.

> Temperature of reaction 55 degrees C plus or minus a few degrees either side

> Total time for reaction I maintained the temperature more or less constant at 55 degrees for an hour then let the batch cool down by itself. I kept the pump on for the first hour to keep the oil and sodium methoxide agitating.

> and anything else that you may think is important. I checked the purity of the NAOH as best I could to ensure that it had not degraded into what ever it degrades into. The granules were a sort of whitish translucent colour.

That's about it Tilly. The colour of the batch looks about right if the photo's on the internet are anything to go by. It is a pale golden colour. As soon as I perform the warnqvesat test, [(Please excuse my spelling of it) Thats the one with 27 mils of methanol and 3mils of oil right?] the methanol goes milky and oil starts to settle out.. Hope you can help

Regards charris

[joe Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close joe]

Re: Warnqvest Conversion Test (3/27 27/3)

I think what Tilly was hinting at but failed to actually say was that to titrate oil you dont use 27mls of isopropyl alcohol, you actually use 10mls.

Its sounds though from the reading of your last post that every thing else you where doing is correct.

I wouldn't bother as a newbie with testing with this method. It seems a bit scary. If you get good clear seperation with no soap or other layers then thats a good start (as a newbie). Stick with the basics and be happy with small wins.

[charris Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close charris]

Re: Warnqvest Conversion Test (3/27 27/3)

Thanks Joe. Sounds good to me. Just for my notes though, what is the purpose of a warnqevest test if not to detect substances that have no business in a diesel combustion chamber? Happy new year

Charris

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: Warnqvest Conversion Test (3/27 27/3)

Hello charris

I apologise for sounding "Terse"
I seem to spend half my life straightening out problems that occure when people read inaccurate information about biodiesel production on the internet.

I am sure there are people on this forum who can help you.
If not please contact me on the infopop biodiesel forum.

Tilly

[dillyman Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dillyman]

Re: Warnqvest Conversion Test (3/27 27/3)

Hi Tilly

Great posting, this type of clear postings can help to avoid the many misdirected processes that is a fact of life from some sites.
Great Robert, prompt action to conserve clear and precise information. With enough of these clear and accurate postings, and easy access, will hopefully ensure they will not get lost in a Labryinth.
Fantastic stuff happening.

Rgds

Dillyman

[Jonatben Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close Jonatben]

Re: Warnqvest Conversion Test (3/27 27/3)

You can always get the biodiesel independently tested and check everything is okay for use, testing at home is fine, but having a good rundown done on it can tell you if your eading in the right direction. If your interested email me on jonatben@gmail.com and we can look at the relevant tests you need.