Is it feasible to make bio as you go on a long trip?

[Bio Popo Member Find all posts View Profile Close Bio Popo]

Hello everyone,
I have an idea that I would like to pass to everyone and see what some of you veterans think. I have never made biodiesel before, but have been reading a lot about it and am ready to start. My plan is to buy a diesel car and drive it up the east coast of oz over a two month period of time on biodiesel. I am much more keen on making the bio myself as oppose to buying it from other homebrewers as I go. Therefore, if I make a small 20L processor, fill the tank of the car, and make a batch or two beforehand to take along, do you think it is feasible to make the bio as I go? Keep in mind that I will not be driving constantly and am free and open to take stops wherever for however long. I figure that if I start with a batch or two already made then I can keep ahead of the need by continually processing and settling. Also, the mileage on my car is very good, about 100km on 6L. Would a camping stove (running on bio!) be enough to heat the drum? or would a fire? I am open to creative suggestions, and thank you very much for your input!

[MommaLopez Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close MommaLopez]

Re: Is it feasible to make bio as you go on a long trip?

TerrySyd has designed and patented a small processor which would suit your purpose pretty well. I don't know how close he is to production, though. Here's the thread. http://www.biofuelsforum.com/showthread.php?t=26

[Terry Syd Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Terry Syd]

Re: Is it feasible to make bio as you go on a long trip?

The mould is being cut right now, perhaps another 3 weeks to get the first one out of the mould and start looking at issues like the wall thickness. After that is determined, then the level lines (I need to know the inside volume before I can put the lines on the outside).

This has been a long journey, and it ain't over yet. Many people can come up with ideas, but to actually put it all together and get it to market is a long frustrating bunch of work.

I have been using the first prototype for a few batches recently. It had been a while since I used it and as I did the first batch I thought, "the fellow that invented this is really clever!"

[Bio Popo Member Find all posts View Profile Close Bio Popo]

Re: Is it feasible to make bio as you go on a long trip?

Well, I've already pretty much deemed that it IS feasible, and if isn't, well then I"ll die trying!! Glad to hear you're making a small-type processor thought Terry, if completed I'm sure it will be a great success. Unfortunately it's a little late for me, I hope to be departing on my journey in the next few days. Thanks for the tip though anyways,

Dave

[garyr Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close garyr]

Re: Is it feasible to make bio as you go on a long trip?

well terry its been a long time coming let me know when its on the market i will be buying one for sure keep up the good work gary

[joe Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close joe]

Re: Is it feasible to make bio as you go on a long trip?

Hi Bio Popo
I would say yes. If you gave your self enough time between "legs" in your trip to allow for production and settling or washing, then yes you could easily make as you go. You could even plan designated stop overs where a member might donate a barrel of oil to keep you moving on the next leg. You would need to think about what your going to use and in particular your energy needs and your ability to store/dump waste and ingredients.

Sounds like fun though. I've often thought about a biofueled treck to meet and greet with some of the forum members.

As for answering a few of your questions. A camp fire or gas stove would be enough to heat the oil. You only have to get it to 50C. You could probably get away with less but winter is coming so getting it to 50 will probably give better conversion and a fuel with a lower cloud/gel point. I was heating oil with solar enery all through summer. It was getting to a shade under 45C and I have been making bd that my car has loved. An open fire will get a 20Litr drum to about 50 in 20 - 30 mins. So dont "go out for a beer" or you'll have to wait for it to cool down again.

Are you talking about camping outdoors or will you have accomodation. Will you be able to lay down a brew in a camping ground?

I was making 16 and 20 litre batches with 20 and 25 litre drums. Once heated and mixed I would kick the drum around for a few minutes every few hours.

Give it a go and find out what you can do before you hit the road.

J

[Bio Popo Member Find all posts View Profile Close Bio Popo]

Re: Is it feasible to make bio as you go on a long trip?

Wow, I finally got a reply to that posting!!
I've come a long way since posting that. I have bought or found everything I need and have started making 15L batches in 20L carboys (just like you Joe). Soon I hope to be on the road. That is a very good suggestion though Joe about meeting up with forum members for oil bc that will be the only ingredient I will need to find as I go. I'm guessing the big 'depots' of members will be sydney and brisbane?
So you say you processed by shaking drum for a few minutes every few hours? HOw long did you process for then? I have been shaking the drum violently for about 5 minutes about 4 or five times in an hour. SHould I doo it for longer? Do you have any tips you found for me? That would be aweosme. Thanks JOe.

Dave

[joe Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close joe]

Re: Is it feasible to make bio as you go on a long trip?

Wow, I finally got a reply to that posting!!
I've come a long way since posting that. I have bought or found everything I need and have started making 15L batches in 20L carboys (just like you Joe). Soon I hope to be on the road. That is a very good suggestion though Joe about meeting up with forum members for oil bc that will be the only ingredient I will need to find as I go. I'm guessing the big 'depots' of members will be sydney and brisbane?
So you say you processed by shaking drum for a few minutes every few hours? HOw long did you process for then? I have been shaking the drum violently for about 5 minutes about 4 or five times in an hour. Should I doo it for longer? Do you have any tips you found for me? That would be aweosme. Thanks JOe.

Dave

Yeah I thought you hadn't gotten a response and I wondered what all of the other comments where doing in this thread.

Yeah I give it a good shake (and when I say shake I mean kick around the yard) first up to mix the ingredients. Maybe every 5 minutes for 5 minutes 3 times. I use that time to clean up.

So its would have had 15 minutes total in 30 minutes. After an hour I give it once more for 1-2 minutes. Once all of the glycerine has settled anywhere from 3-8 hours (clear seperation ie. 15 litres BD - 3 litres glycerine) I will give one more good shake (30 secs - 1 min) until Glycerine is dissolved back into mix to let it fall through the BD again. And then let it sit for 8 - 24 hours to seperate. Then filter off glycerine and pour remaining biodiesel off for settling. I have a ($2.50 from mitre10) tap which I pour it all through.

Its not bad but unfortunately I'm using too much a week so it means I need to do about 4 - 5 brews a week. Its getting a bit annoying. Especially since I get home at 6pm and need to spend an hour doing it then. I'm looking at a 90 - 160litre processor now. I need a few ball valves and some hosing and I'll be right. I have a 200 litre drum for processing and another for storage/seperation. I have a pump (courtesy of ebay) and about 700 litres I need to process.
Joe

[joe Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close joe]

Re: Is it feasible to make bio as you go on a long trip?

Wow, I finally got a reply to that posting!!
I've come a long way since posting that. I have bought or found everything I need and have started making 15L batches in 20L carboys (just like you Joe). Soon I hope to be on the road. That is a very good suggestion though Joe about meeting up with forum members for oil bc that will be the only ingredient I will need to find as I go. I'm guessing the big 'depots' of members will be sydney and brisbane?
So you say you processed by shaking drum for a few minutes every few hours? HOw long did you process for then? I have been shaking the drum violently for about 5 minutes about 4 or five times in an hour. SHould I doo it for longer? Do you have any tips you found for me? That would be aweosme. Thanks JOe.

Dave

Also I forgot to mention that although most fish and chip shops have a "commercial" collection bin, I've fopund that people dont mind me collecting from them anyway or taking oil out of the bin. I've done some foraging around the backs of shops and found a few full drums. Sounds a bit scabby but its all in the name of fuel independance and saving more than a few bucks. When I see oil full containers i see $$.

[Bio Popo Member Find all posts View Profile Close Bio Popo]

Re: Is it feasible to make bio as you go on a long trip?

Hey joe!
Thanks for your info. Curious though, how come you shake the glycerine back into the biodiesel after it separates initially? Is there an advantage to having it settle out again? Why not take advantage of having THAT glycerine settled out by draining it off? Does it attract more glycerine/by-product like some kind of magnet when it goes through again or something? Just trying to understand the logic there. Thanks!
Dave

[joe Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close joe]

Re: Is it feasible to make bio as you go on a long trip?

I think there is more Potassium Methoxide in the glycerine that can be used to convert more biodiesel instead of just wasting it. (Unless you distill the methanol off post production). Cant prove it but it may convert another 1 or 2 % oil into biodiesel.

Joe

[joe Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close joe]

Re: Is it feasible to make bio as you go on a long trip?

Incidently what sort of car did you get?

[Bio Popo Member Find all posts View Profile Close Bio Popo]

Re: Is it feasible to make bio as you go on a long trip?

hmmmm well can anyone confirm or deny Joe's theory there? It sounds quiet likely that it's true, but I'm no expert!
My car is a 1983 peugeot 505 diesel! yeah baby!

[Tony From West Oz Vice Chairperson of WARFA Find all posts View Profile Close Tony From West Oz]

Re: Is it feasible to make bio as you go on a long trip?

I don't know that it would make any difference.
If you added, say 5%, water and then re-mixed, you would have an advantage in that the glycerol would separate more cleanly from the biodiesel. This may cause the biodiesel to become cloudy, but that would be expected if you are adding water. You would need to dry the biodiesel after any washing anyway.

The glycerol from a normal batch, allowed to settle, will develop a layer of biodiesel on top. FRom what I have been told, this does not happen when the 5% water remix is used. You get to keep all of the biodiesel in the batch.

If you proceed with washing, this is also supposed to make the first wash less likely to form an emulsion.

Bon Voyage.
Please open a thread on your travels, with postings from your "refuelling stopovers" Perhaps you can make some converts while you are at it.