the new oil police?

[alguy]

Re: the new oil police?

I've been in the Bulk storage fuel tank (mostly mineral fuels) business for a long time.

One of my roles is to consult on the legally acceptable methods for the storage and handling of Dangerous goods.

Waste cooking oil is NOT considered a dangerous good, therefore it is not subject to the legislation put in place to safe guard transport, storage and use of cooking oil used or not. Even if the oil was considered hazardous if it's in a sealed drum of 20L, 60L or 200L it is classed as "Packaged Goods" and can be transported and stored without any consequence at all.

In relation to the shop owner, he has a duty to ensure that the waste oil is disposed of correctly. ie- not tipping it down the drain. An individual/business can only be fined or prosecuted for disposing of the oil in a environmentally damaging way.
All he needs from you is a written statement asserting that you will dispose of the waste oil correctly. Once the oil is in your possession it is no longer his problem.

Forget about the EPA they have Much bigger fish to fry, unless they are provided evidence (video) of you dumping the oil down the drain.

You can reference these publications.

AS1940-2004, The storage and handling Dangerous goods. (this Australian Standard is legislation [law] in QLD, Aust.)

Dangerous Goods ACT 1985 - Code of Practice for the Storage and Handling of Dangerous Goods.

Dangerous Goods Regulations 2001- Statutory Rule


Hope that helps.

[Geoffwin]

Re: the new oil police?

A few questions I asked in 2007 when this conversation first came up in relation to the legality or otherwise of collecting waste oil.

The cut and paste is not quite in order so read it all to understand the context.

This all started after the local council sent out a letter to all food premises advising that they must use a licenced waste collector. This is from the council

Geoff,

Unfortunately, a number of years ago Council's then Food Safety Officer did send letters out stating that a licensed contractor had to be used but did not advise of the thresholds. There has been some confusion amongst shopkeepers since.

XXXXXXXXX operates the liquid waste plant at the XXXXXXXXX tip, and is a licensed contractor.

Here are the broad questions I asked of DECC

How do I know if I need a licence and what about the cafe owner and what if I reuse the "waste" in a stationary motor

The café owner must ensure that the waste cooking oil (as indicated below defined as liquid food waste and subsequently Group B waste) is transported in accordance with the legislation and disposed of in an appropriate manner.

The transporter of the waste must determine is a licence is required. If more than 200kg of hazardous, industrial group A, B and/or C waste is being transported in a single load, a licence is required by the person transporting the waste.

In relation to the use of the waste cooking oil then the person using it must determine if a licence is required. I have included links to the DECC’s Guide to Licensing Part A and Part B which will assist to that end.

Without details of the end use of the waste cooking oil I am not suggesting a licence is required, I am suggesting that you will need to determine if a licence is required. I am not able to give definitive advice based on “running stationary motors on a property”.

If, after you have reviewed the Guides to Licensing, you still have concerns please contact the local office of the DECC.>>
David Fowler
Head Licence Administration and Revenue

When does cooking oil become waste and what if I use it as fuel (process it further by filtering)? I thought that if it was still being used it should not be classed as waste.

It is ‘waste’ as soon as the café can no longer use it for the purpose it was obtained.
If less than 200kg is transported then a licence to transport is not required.
In relation to the management (“constraints”) of waste the DECC’s Waste Guidelines provide further advice.

In relation to the use of the waste cooking oil to fuel motors, you should consider that under Schedule 1 of the Act, Waste facilities are defined as:

(a) hazardous, industrial, Group A or Group B waste processing facilities, being waste facilities that treat, process or reprocess hazardous waste, industrial waste, Group A waste or Group B waste (or any combination of those types of waste), except those:

(i) that only treat, process or reprocess sewage, or gases specified as Dangerous Goods Class 2 in the 6th edition of the Australian Code for the Transport of Dangerous Goods by Road and Rail, in force as at 1 January 1998, or
(ii) that only treat, process or reprocess waste that is generated on site.

As the waste cooking oil is a Group B waste, and the use of the waste to fuel a motor could arguably by considered ‘processing’ then this may trigger the licensing provisions as a waste facility.

David Fowler
Head Licence Administration and Revenue

What type of waste is used cooking oil?

Schedule 1 of the Protection of the Environment Operations Act 1997 (“the Act”) defines

Transporting of waste - being the activities of persons who transport any one or more of the following types of waste for fee or reward (including occupiers of waste facilities, and persons who carry on waste activities, that are licensed under this Act and who transport any such waste to or from those facilities):

(a) transport of hazardous waste, industrial waste, Group A waste, Group B waste or Group C waste (or of any combination of those types of waste) in loads exceeding 200 kilograms, except if it consists only of stabilised asbestos waste in bonded matrix,

(b) transport of used, rejected or unwanted tyres (including shredded tyres and tyre pieces) in loads over 2 tonnes.
For the purposes of this item, the following are excluded:

(a) persons who transport waste in their capacity as employees,

(b) any waste that is transported in connection with an emergency situation or an accident.

Group B waste is defined by the Act as including Liquid food waste.
liquid food waste means food waste in liquid form, but does not include food waste to which liquid has been added.

Accordingly, waste cooking oil would be considered to be liquid food waste and Group B waste.

If the oil is transported in loads exceeding 200 kilograms, then a licence is required to transport the waste.

In terms of record keeping requirements associated with the generation, storage, transport and disposal of the oil, if the activities are licensed then the licence specifies the record keeping requirements. If unlicensed (because the activities do not exceed the licensing threshold) record keeping/reporting requirements are detailed at the following link:
DECC | Waste tracking

David Fowler
Head Licence Administration and Revenue

Geoff

[Hoffy]

Re: the new oil police?

Hi,

I do not believe they have any right to the oil unless they have a contract to collect all waste oil. This may be stipulated in there purchase agreements of new oil contracts.

My supplier fills my supplied containers weekly approx 60 lts pw. Which I collect. There is a large collection company container there, where he will put excess oil into depending on my abilility to collect.

He will contact them when it requires emtying. There has been no issues so far.

The only problem I have with the collection of oil is the quantity and not able to handle the volume.

My biggest issue would be to find a reasonable supplier of methanol in the brisbane district. Any suggestions welcome.

All else is good.

I have been running my Hi-Lux on 100% since 01/11/08.
Some minor issues such as filters etc.

[dmbeckm]

Re: the new oil police?

If you check this link it will give you all the info on European laws for transport of the oil and storage. Its stupid for its restrictions, but in the same token oil companies are losing money so I didn't expect any less.

http://carbon-neutral-car-laws.blogspot.com/

[silver_fox_aus1]

Re: the new oil police?

Hi All,

In Qld it is regulated that you can pick up up to 200kg of oil without license which as oil is about 87ish the weight of water is over 205 liters so 1 44gal drum is legal the only thing that is required if you want to get technical is that you should provide a collection form forget the name which works out at about 1.50 per pickup and can be obtained form the state government. My research leads me to believe it is fairly uniform around Australia. but check your state government if you want to be certain

[jacks daughter]

Re: the new oil police?

From what I have read so far there appears to be no issue if the load being transported is under the limit.

Lets shift gears and look at this issue from a different perspective.

Lets call this practice by the correct term "harrasment and coercion"

"Competition and Consumer Act" ring any bells?

Lets say you have a handshake agreement to receive used oil from your supplier. You have a standing arangement and the terms between you and them stand until one of you decides otherwise. So lets say a third party offers the supplier a better deal for the oil and for what ever reasons the supplier decides the new arrangement suits them better than the deal they made with you. The supplier is under no obligation to continue to supply you. You can not force the issue just because you have a history with them. This is a fair market trade of goods between supplier and consumer.

Now lets say that the third party uses harrasment and coercion to deceive the supplier into changing the arrangement to benefit the third party. You the customer looses out. The supplier has lost choice in who they supply to. Is there a problem with this picture? Is it unfair? Is this practice allowed by Law?

Even if the third party goes about obtaining a contract with the supplier under false pretenses this is still an invalid contract and it can be broken.

The only way to truth is to shed light on the lie. You need to expose the practices of the third party and even if that requires alternative media, car magazine articles, Youtube videos, t-shirts, car stickers, handouts, web site information portals and telephone hotlines.

This practice needs to be nipped in the bud because the whole recycled oil for the small guy is under threat from big players who are underhanded thieves helping themselves to your rightful vegetable oil. They may be big but there can't be too many of them right? There must be thousands of small players recycling vegetable oil. And those guys have mates...lots of them.

If people don't stand up and do something now this resource is going to be lost permanently because the big players will use the profits to lobby the law makers and make it so.

Who else benefits from you the little guy doing car conversions and all the things that go along with owning these type of vehicles? I bet the suppliers who are down wind of the recycled oil enthusiasts would be in a position to have a say in this too. All those filters and tanks etc need customers. You will not be the only loosers...

[SUZUDDIS]

Re: the new oil police?

That's a great statement but as soon as you stand up in the media you immediately let the rest of the country know it's ok to use cooking oil or better still "make Biodiesel" from used cooking oil.
I don't want that to happen. Yes I'm green and yes it could potentially save me money on my fuel bill. But I don't want to advertise it widely.

Along with the transportation limits, As long as you don't upset anyone by dumping waste or spilling at a client pickup nobody will be the wiser.

Michael

[jacks daughter]

Re: the new oil police?

That's a great statement but as soon as you stand up in the media you immediately let the rest of the country know it's ok to use cooking oil or better still "make Biodiesel" from used cooking oil.
I don't want that to happen. Yes I'm green and yes it could potentially save me money on my fuel bill. But I don't want to advertise it widely.

Along with the transportation limits, As long as you don't upset anyone by dumping waste or spilling at a client pickup nobody will be the wiser.

Michael

You made me ask myself the same question. It would be a concern if everyone started chasing the same resource. The information is out there already.

If people knew better would they do better? Are there that many people willing to put in the time, effort and money into making alternative fuels? People know it is really important to reuse, repurpose and recycle but how many people actually do it or do it consistently? I wonder about that all the time because I feel surrounded by people including family members who don't make the effort that I make and I often ask myself why do I bother and why am I so different because it makes me the annoying one who is the weirdo.

Have you converted family and friends to run their cars on used cooking oil? If they see you using it they would do it too right? I don't know you but I admire you for placing yourself in a position where I personally aspire to be.

[Captaincademan]

Re: the new oil police?

JD,

the topic has been on everyones mind for years now. utopian world ideals indicate that we should shout it loud and proud. "We make and use alternative fuels and we love it". sad truth is that we dont. selfish reasons kick in. thats not a criticism at all, because I too belong to the "dont take my oil source" crowd.

I have been making it now for about 7 or 8 years or so. When i first started doing it, very few others in my circle knew of it. I was wrapped in the process, and thought that others would be too, so I became fearful of losing my sources. The big fuel prices hit and diesel went over the dollar mark. suddenly there was oil splashed all over at the back of the shops. there was rags, buckets all sorts left all over the place where careless fools had tried to bail the oil out of the drums and got it everywhere.

Oil collection companies started locking drums. that didnt work though, as the shop keepers kept loosing the keys. so oil collection comapnies started welding a mesh grill into the top of drums. that deterred most. I found a way to continue with little impact on the shop and the oil company. Ofcourse i see some opposition, but not from the shop keeper who is the most important person in the triangle.

bottom line is that everyone wants everything with out being willing to put in the effort, nor gain the knowledge, nor experiement and risk their machinery. We all did those things and continue to do so. There is little risk now ofcourse, but the first few tank fulls certainly caused a stirring in my tummy!


The thing that I dislike the most about newcomers is the pretenders. The "yes I'll come to the meeting to learn all about it" then when they dont turn up you find out they went to the movies instead. Bottom line is there are so very few people in society that are willing, able and not brainwashed by their mechanic. for that reason most people drop out of the ugly, messy, smelly, time consuming, yet fun and social thing that bio / alternative fuels are.

welcome to the crowd and stick at it. its worth while.

[tillyfromparadise]

Re: the new oil police?

Yes, If I were making biodiesel it would not to be to save the world. I have finally decided that I am too old for that and I will leave it to my children to save the world. I would be making it to save money.

[SUZUDDIS]

Re: the new oil police?

JD

Like Cade and Tilly have said and all of us say in our conversations. I don't want to down anyone who uses Biodiesel, I am very happy to let friends know and my mechanic know what it is that I do.
Yes there will be funny looks and yes people make snide remarks. but inside , you know what it is that you are doing.

I have had many unusual conversations with friends , workmates and even with my wife and kids. Yes for some reason I'm the mad scientist who cooks up some strange idea to help others.
I take the waste oil away from the shop because it's too hard for the shop owner to organise a drum and bin to put the waste into.
I clean up the oil and re-use it to make Biodiesel so I can reduce the nasty gasses that slowly choke our streets.
I also save money from my little hobby.

Notice this is all about me..... but it's not.

I would be really concerned if a lot of people took up the hobby of making Biodiesel because there would be a sudden loss of oil stock around town. There would also be a change of law after many garage fires due to lack of safety and knowledge. we could go on and on but I like to think positive.

There are many great things about what I have discovered here. I have found some really good friends , a great knowledge of Diesel engines, a fantastic forum that continues to educate me and a fuel that helps me to appreciate what we do.

There are many stories here. Have a read and enjoy.

Also. sorry I haven't answered your question.
I have not converted anyone that I personally know or have spoken to about Biodiesel. Maybe except the boyfriend of the chef I was collecting oil from. My bad.
I have however converted my wife to the benefits of Bio and she can't wait until the next car purchase is a VW Golf that will run on Bio.

You are not crazy just highly motivated.


Michael

[jacks daughter]

Re: the new oil police?

All, thank you. I have a lot to learn.

[sean musso]

Re: the new oil police?

the EPA still havnt fined me or anyone else i know for making biodiesel for private use yet