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New Methods #2. The Imisides Method

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  • #91
    Re: New Methods #2. The Imisides Method

    Originally posted by WesleyB View Post
    I have just mail ordered 2 kilograms of calcium oxide from Austin, Texas for a cost of 91 American dollars. On page 166 of the book A Text-Book of Practical Organic Chemistry by Arthur Vogel, Third edition, it gives a procedure for "Dehydration of rectified spirit by quicklime" That's drying alcohol using calcium oxide. It is similar to this Imisides method. I tried to make ethyl biodiesel using 190 proof grain alcohol, it didn't work well. Now I'm going to try drying the 190 proof grain alcohol using calcium oxide like this Imisides method. I think there is something to this methjod if your alcohol is wet, but it is an extra expense.
    just got 1000kg for $300 plus $150 for delivery

    and I am thinking now that I can get my 190 proof moonshine even higher (just joking, 190 is ample for drinking)

    happy new year folks

    cheers Murf
    3 years of BD100 using the Dr Mark Imisides method, currently making 10,000lt/year

    1991 GQ Patrol 4.2 with DTS turbo

    Comment


    • #92
      Re: New Methods #2. The Imisides Method

      Hi Murf,
      Originally posted by murf View Post
      just got 1000kg for $300 plus $150 for delivery
      happy new year folks
      cheers Murf
      That works out to to about $135 a year you are spending on this magic ingredient plus all the extra time and extra waste to dispose of as well as the extra cost of the excess KOH.

      ปีใหม่ความสุข

      11 years of B100 not using the Imisides method
      tillyfromparadise
      Senior Member
      Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 31 December 2011, 08:56 PM.

      Comment


      • #93
        Re: New Methods #2. The Imisides Method

        Well done, smurf. Looking forward to seeing how it goes. I am NOT convinced that Mark's idea ISN'T a good one, so want to hear results on how someone else goes with using it for awhile.

        Comment


        • #94
          Re: New Methods #2. The Imisides Method

          Hi yorta2
          Originally posted by yorta2 View Post
          Well done, smurf. Looking forward to seeing how it goes... so want to hear results on how someone else goes with using it for awhile.
          If you go back and read murf's earlier posts you can see he has successfully used a version of this method for 3 years. However, as far as I can tell, as long as there is some glycerine seperation murf and Mark consider it a success.
          I am terribly disappointed that Mark did not post any testing to support his claims for this method. He does have a Ph.D in chemistry. I am sure Mark would not have posted this procedure in a technical journal with all the claims he makes for it without the supporting testing also being posted to support his claims.



          I am NOT convinced that Mark's idea ISN'T a good one
          That depends on your definition of a good idea.
          When you compare the Imisides method with the method I use, the Imisides method takes much longer to perform, produces a greater waste stream to dispose of, uses more chemicals, and costs more to perform for a similar quality of fuel produced.
          That is likely to be the reason why in his first post Mark says he has decided that this procedure has no commercial value.
          tillyfromparadise
          Senior Member
          Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 1 January 2012, 11:44 AM.

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          • #95
            Re: New Methods #2. The Imisides Method

            My radio show is now podcast: Dr Chemical

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            • #96
              Re: New Methods #2. The Imisides Method

              Looking at the amounts required my initial thoughts where that this is probably ok for commercial amounts of Biodiesel. Maybe 10,000 litres.
              as for the home user , this appears to be a fairly long winded procedure although adding CaO to the methanol is probably the same amount of steps if another is removed providing it does produce higher quality fuel.

              My initial thoughts worried me re: mixing the CaO with the Methanol then settling. In 150ml's of Methanol, that's not a problem. what about in 30 - 40 litres for 150 - 200 litres of WVO. I'd have to change my entire setup just to dewater my Methanol.
              It might not be a problem for someone starting out as they could add this filtering system into the processor. then look for a way to dispose of the byproduct. maybe pay for the rights at the local dump.

              I don't see any benefits at this stage in my setup. the same amount of steps , more Naoh and fiddly cleaning of the byproduct.

              Like I said , each to their own. This would obviously suit a large scale production where heating doesn't need to take place , quantities of Naoh or Koh are better priced and bigger filters are not a problem and better quality of fuel is required for resale.
              Mark . if it works for you and you're happy good luck. go your hardest with the radio show in Perth. Just make sure no one in Brisbane is stealing my oil

              Michael
              97 Jeep XJ Cherokee on B100. 0 km's on B100 and counting !!!! (Sold)
              2002 Merc ML270 now on B100. (Sold)
              2006 Ssangyong Musso 2.9 t idi (Sold)
              2015 NP300 Navara ( Sold )
              2018 NP300 Navara ( B5 )

              Stainless processor with blue water pump.
              Tetragonula Hockingsi

              Take the Leap and grow wings on the way down

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              • #97
                Related to the Imisides method of drying methoxide produced by mixing sodium hydroxide solid with dry methanol then adding calcium oxide to further dry the methoxide solution . There's a fact Dr. Mark didn't mention or he didn't think about . I ruined a small 1 litre glass still pot by heating it over 200 degrees centigrade with solid sodium hydroxide in it . The expensive heat shock resistant glass developed a slight crack on the bottom . I believe I was using vacuum . What the hot still produced was a little water out of sodium hydroxide solid . One way to make drier methoxide was adding metal sodium to anhydrous (without water) methanol , but that is expensive . It seems to me that an advantage to the extra trouble of drying the methoxide is a faster reaction time at room temperature .

                Comment


                • #98
                  Still making bio Marks original method, still works every single time with diesel $232/Lt at the ⛽ it's still awesome to not have to worry about fuel costs
                  3 years of BD100 using the Dr Mark Imisides method, currently making 10,000lt/year

                  1991 GQ Patrol 4.2 with DTS turbo

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Still making biodiesel not using this method. My method works every single time and costs much less in time, chemicals and waste stream and money.
                    I wonder if people will start making biodiesel again.
                    tillyfromparadise
                    Senior Member
                    Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 27 March 2022, 09:13 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by tillyfromparadise View Post
                      Still making biodiesel not using this method. My method works every single time and costs much less in time, chemicals and waste stream and money.
                      I wonder if people will start making biodiesel again.
                      Haven't been on here for years, what is this method? Do you have a link? Definitely we will be fighting over wvo now diesel is$230/Lt

                      Cheers Paul
                      3 years of BD100 using the Dr Mark Imisides method, currently making 10,000lt/year

                      1991 GQ Patrol 4.2 with DTS turbo

                      Comment


                      • https://www.drchemical.com.au/uncategorised/biodiesel

                        Mark invited WARFA members to view his process last year. I appreciated seeing it in action, plus the water was with added acid.
                        Toyota Landcruiser 1988 HJ61 Manual Wagon
                        12H-T turbo Direct Injection.
                        Twin Tank setup runs on 100% WVO after warm up. 30 plate FPHE with 80C output, 12mm fuel lines
                        Start up and shut down electric fuel pump feeds IP direct.
                        Front 4WDSytstems Lokka, Rear ARB airlokka for quick escapes up sandhills. Performance GTurbo with 600mm FMIC gives 450nm @ 1700rpm at 20psi boost.

                        Comment


                        • G'day Tim,
                          Of course you are invited to see my method the next time I make biodiesel too.
                          Not sure what you mean by "plus the water was with added acid". Can you explain?

                          Hi Murf,
                          Mark's "Method"seems to be to avoid doing a titration. For some reason he also claims that his method is the only method that makes boidiesel at room/ ambient temperature. This claim is inaccurate, many people, including me, make biodiesel at ambient temperature using all sorts of methods.
                          The method in question involves not titrating and instead, adding a HUGE excess of KOH (20g KOH per litre WVO) to the methanol and then adding a HUGE amount of CEMENT to this methoxide (20kg grey cement to 180 litres methanol) in hopes that the cement will remove all the water produced. After the cement settles out, you remove the cement layer containing part of the methanol.
                          Apparently this method was found to not be commercially viable- I wonder why?

                          My method involves not using an excess of KOH, not using any Cement and performing the reaction at ambient temperature.

                          I currently have thousands of litres of WVO and biodiesel in storage, a lifetimes worth. Now I am looking at doing up my Musso so it will last me the rest of my life too. It is starting to look very shabby. The cheapest to repaint it is $5,500 so it looks like I will be re-enter the car painting business after a 39 year hiatus. So much to learn.
                          I pulled my Montgomery Ward paint gun out of storage and see it still has the residue of black lacquer that I painted my MGTD back in 83. Wish I still had it.

                          Tilly
                          tillyfromparadise
                          Senior Member
                          Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 29 March 2022, 08:33 PM.

                          Comment


                          • I only use 15g KOH/lt wvo and still using the CaO I bought 10 years ago or more. How much can I save for the extra time and brain power needed to titrate?
                            3 years of BD100 using the Dr Mark Imisides method, currently making 10,000lt/year

                            1991 GQ Patrol 4.2 with DTS turbo

                            Comment


                            • Hi Murf,
                              I typically use 10g KOH per litre WVO. That would save you 1/3 the cost of your KOH. Apparently, the
                              CaO removing about 15% of the methanol from the methoxide . That is the same as throwing 30 litres of methanol away from every 200 litres drum you buy.
                              I am sorry to hear you went to the expense of buying 10 years worth of CaO. How much CaO did you buy? I see Mark recommends 20kg of cement powder for every 180 of methanol. Do you use that much CaO?
                              It takes a minute or so to do a titration and very minimal brain power. Even I can titrate.
                              How long does it take for you to mix the CaO into the methoxide and then drain it off after a few days of settling?

                              Tilly
                              PS- As I recall, the amount of KOH was increased from 15g to 20g after I performed some testing that showed 15g KOH was not enough for some high titration oil. Good to see you are not using high titration oil.
                              tillyfromparadise
                              Senior Member
                              Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 30 March 2022, 01:33 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Murf : What is this method? I'll describe it briefly . Dr Mark initially suggested using cement to dry methoxide solution to increase the concentration of methoxide in methanol . But the actual process functions via calcium oxide further drying methoxide made with sodium hydroxide and anhydrous methanol . Adding lye to anhydrous methanol produces methoxide + methanol + water . Removing the water causes an increase in the concentration of methoxide . Calcium oxide reacting with water makes calcium hydroxide , which will settle out . That's the basics of the Imisides method suggested by Dr Mark . An inreased concentration of methoxide will increase the reaction rate , especially at lower temperatures .

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