first time water washing

[alifreddy]

here arre a few pics of my bio diesel gone from a horse pee type colour. I washed in cubies + water went through to bottom after pouring cubies through a 1 micron filter its gone an orange juice colour again

check pics on my profile page

http://www.facebook.com/courier.lightremovals

Moderator note - alifreddy's first posting was moderated as he put a link in, and it got caught up in the automatic spam traps. I have checked the link and it is to his Facebook page. There are a set of photo's there of bio. It appears legitimate. the link to the photos direct is https://www.facebook.com/courier.lig.../photos_stream

Alifreddy - Welcome to this Australian board.

[Tony From West Oz]

Re: first time water washing

alifreddy,
As I do not have a facebook account, I cannot view your images.
If you can use an image hosting site (photobucket.com is one) then use the "IMG" tagged link, pasted into your post to display the images.
As you are a newcomer, the post will be moderated and will result in a delay (<24 hours) before the post will be approved by a moderator.

Regards,
Tony

[craigcurtin]

Re: first time water washing

This is perfectly normal when you have wet bio - you now need to go through a dryiing process (how many water washes have you done ?)

Take a small amount - say 250ml and put it in an open top jar - put it in your microwave and put it on for a minute or so - take it out and stir it gently - keep doing this and you should start to see the bio clear as the water boils out of the mixture - make sure you do not have free water trapped at the bottom when doing this

This will show you that your BIO is OK as the water evaporates out.

Once this is proven to be OK then you need to bubble dry and apply gentle heat to your full batch

Craig

[Ghostrider]

Re: first time water washing

I got the same results in my second effort. I did mine in mason jars and failed miserably with the first aggressively shaken one that turned into a frothy tan goo. Second effort mild tilting after a slow water addition made a much better result. The first effort sat for a few days and there was just a little separation so I hit the internet for a fix. Found that if salt is added and shaken again it would separate. *** Note*** the salt added cleared it right up and provided real separation. Now I am no chemist and I do not know what the salt does to the Biodiesel other than making the goo clear up.

[WesleyB]

Re: first time water washing

In a small methyl biodiesel batch, I got the milk looking water/ biodiesel with aggressive shaking in a separatory funnel. I had about 300 milliliters biodiesel, 200 milliliters distilled water, that formed the emulsion. I added 10 grams of sodium chloride (table salt), then shook the separatory funnel, and the emulsion broke, separation occurred. I washed twice with the salt water then twice with distilled water. After washing twice with salt water, the emulsion didn't occur. After the methanol was mostly removed with the water washing it seemed to help get separation by using hot water to wash with. I expect the initial salt water washes remove enough soap so the emulsion doesn't happen later. But washing with salt water probably puts salt into the biodiesel, that needs to be removed later, somehow.

[tillyfromparadise]

Re: first time water washing

Hi wesley

I washed twice with the salt water then twice with distilled water... After the methanol was mostly removed with the water washing

After 4 water washes do you think there was still a significant amount of methanol remaining in the biodiesel.

But washing with salt water probably puts salt into the biodiesel, that needs to be removed later, somehow.

Thaqt is always something I have wondered about. I am told that salt does not dissolve in biodiesel. If that is the case how much salt will be in salt water washed and dried biodiesel?

[Tony From West Oz]

Re: first time water washing

With 2 salt water then 2 on salted water washes,
Should any salt remain in the wash tank from washes 21 and 2, it would be significantly diluted in the third and fourth washes.

Don't forget to dry your biodiesel before use.

Happy New Year,

Tony

[Ghostrider]

Re: first time water washing

Thanks to all for the input on the salt adding to wash. I am not about to taste anything to tell if there is salt remaining ha ha. I am going to run a generator motor on this result. After drying, I see deposits that are white in the bottom of my jar, Salt? I will not use that portion. SOme folks make this process sound easy, I will continue to struggle till I get it. Helps to have helpful folks to discuss especially for a newb.

[hdj80]

Re: first time water washing

Next time try to just put a bubblier in the tank and bubble it for 5 days or so.. as soon as the methanol is gone the crap will drop to the bottom. filter and use... then when that does not work for you, try water (if you must) but do it in small containers until you know how it will come out rather than ending up with a BIG mess...

I have made close to 30,000litres and most of it has been dry bubble washed my 80 has done 150,000 plus kms on it and no dramas 3/27 pH tests all good... I use to water wash and I will never go back to that it is just a massive waste of time and resources IMHO....

BTW that last pic tells me it looks fine just needs to dry out - put the jar into the microwave when the mrs isn't looking and give it a little spin or put it in the sun and it will clear up....

Why did you decide water washing was the go? Did you read that... personally I think water washing is a great way to learn,,, but a big waste as I have already said.... I have water washed bubbled sprayed you name it but will never go back to that time wasting back breaking chore...

I now recover 50% of the unused methanol and dry wash the rest so that in 2 days from go to woa I have usable Biodiesel...

[Ghostrider]

Re: first time water washing

I Water washed because of the strong Methanol Smell in the reacted mix. The book and all my self taught efforts guided me that way. I just aquired a 1981 MB 300SD Turbo Diesel clunker that will be the test vehicle before the 2006 F250 6.0 Turbo Diesel truck gets a shot of the home made brew. I have a Fuel Miester set up and it is equipped to water wash. There are many variables that I guess can make this step needed or not. I will try to post as I advance.

[SUZUDDIS]

Re: first time water washing

Ghostrider

With regards to the emulsion try some vinegar next time. There are plenty of threads about emulsions if you have time to read. We have all been there.
With regards to the two vehicles that you have we'll they couldn't be more different in what quality of Biodiesel you could use. The old Merc would handle un washed (water) Biodiesel nicely but really should be at least bubble washed to get rid of the methanol so it doesn't destroy the IP.

As for the F250 make sure the Bio is good quality if you like your car. But as for running on B100 it should run really nicely. Again look around the forum or search for F250 and you will find some happy users.

Aligreddy , that wvo looks mean. Can you get better quality used oil ?
I don't know what you are running it in so that will depend on how much you wash. You appear to be on the right track if you are turning that nasty oil into useable Bio though. Good luck.

Michael

[250downunder]

Re: first time water washing

"As for the F250 make sure the Bio is good quality if you like your car. But as for running on B100 it should run really nicely. Again look around the forum or search for F250 and you will find some happy users."
Ford Australia never sold F250's with the 6.00L. engine. They were fitted with the 7.3L up until they stopped selling the R/H drive units some years back. The 7.3L love Bio [good quality - water washed of course!]. I don't know of anyone locally running a 6.00L. [which would be a converted L/H drive import] on Bio.

[Tony From West Oz]

Re: first time water washing

SNIP
Ford Australia never sold F250's with the 6.00L. engine. They were fitted with the 7.3L up until they stopped selling the R/H drive units some years back. The 7.3L love Bio [good quality - water washed of course!]. I don't know of anyone locally running a 6.00L. [which would be a converted L/H drive import] on Bio.

250,
The member who started this thread is from USA, so that would make his 6.0L F250 a LHD locally produced vehicle (from his point of view).

[250downunder]

Re: first time water washing

I was aware of the fact that the member was in the USA. My point was that there was likely nothing to be gained from searching an Australian forum for "F250" with reference to running Bio in a vehicle fitted with an engine type not sold in Australia. The 6.0L engine is very different from the 7.3L Navistar [International] engine used by Ford in the Australian RHD F250's.
I am sure that there are 6.0L F250's running Bio in the US.
Have a look here: Bio-Diesel/Alternative Fuels and Supplements - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum

[Ghostrider]

Re: first time water washing

Thanks Guys. Here where the Big Oil companies control just about everything, I find as much negative as positive feedback on the idea of Bio Diesel. The 6.0 Ford motor will require high quality clean and dry bio for sure. I am still a newb so it will likely get regular old diesel for a few more months. The old Mercedes on the other hand will get what ever resembles Bio diesel once I get a result that isn't more soap than usable fuel. PS the oil I am starting with is from multiple sources and filtered then heated. I am using Naoh and so far my titrations have been over 5. I am guessing that is what has my "soap" levels so high and what has led me to your forum. at least you all are using Bio and not just full of hot air. Thanks again.