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1hz injector pump rebuild

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    mathuranatha
    Biofuels Forum Newbie

  • mathuranatha
    replied
    Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

    Originally posted by Qwarla View Post
    It looks to me that you are trying to convince yourself your injectors are stuffed.
    Picture this-
    IP is sending an amount of fuel to each injector. It can go two places.
    1. Into the engine and be burnt producing power.
    2. Out the overflow tube and return to the fuel tank.

    Now you have no, or very little overflow and very low on power. What does this suggest to you?
    To me it says you are not getting enough fuel delivered to your injectors.
    If you have had the engine running as described, everything on your vehicle has been bypassed except the IP. So the problem has to be within the IP.

    The vein pump will not be visible through the return banjo bolt hole. It's usually down the front near where the IP bolts to the engine.
    The fact that the screen in this hole was clogged with crud must tell you something.
    it tells me that your filter system has had a failure and let crud into your IP.
    If you study the diagrams further back up this thread you will discover something that may help you. Marked in big blue letters.
    On most IPs there is a sintered filter between the IP pumps body and the high pressure head. Sometimes under the fuel shut off solenoid.

    All the fuel that gets sent to the injectors has to pass through this filter.
    Since there is/was crud in your IP it is a fair bet this other filter copped a fair bit as well and is very restricted.

    If I was a gambling man I'd put up $20.00 saying this is your problem.
    you seem a pretty knowledgable bloke , wonder if you know if the L or 2L [not sure which I have ] Hilux motors from the 80s have an intrnal screen in the IP and if so where ? :-) thanks :-)

    Leave a comment:

  • farmerpete
    Junior Member

  • farmerpete
    replied
    Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

    Tony
    The info in this thread is very relevant to another thread in Making Biodiesel titled '1HZ wont rev heaps of smoke'. That thread has had 12000 views
    Perhaps the info in this thread and that other thread should be somehow combined?
    Cheers
    ps O how the om606 goes compared to the 603.Its so much fun to drive .New plastic fuel hoses already.

    Leave a comment:

  • Dr Mark
    Senior Member

  • Dr Mark
    replied
    Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

    I just left it as it was. It was running fine so if it ain't broke don't fix it. But it meant that I had to carry a spare pump with me just in case

    Leave a comment:

  • Tony From West Oz
    Vice Chairperson of WARFA

  • Tony From West Oz
    replied
    Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

    Mark,
    Did you fix the problem causing the poor performance or just continue with your work around?
    Tony

    Leave a comment:

  • Dr Mark
    Senior Member

  • Dr Mark
    replied
    Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

    Originally posted by Tony From West Oz View Post
    Farmerpete. I am not sure that your engine behaves the same as the 1HT engine, but if it does:
    Remove the facet pump from the fuel delivery line. It cannot pass enough fuel for that engine. It pumps a lot more fuel than the engine needs and the restriction may cause the symptoms you have.
    If you need a primer pump put it in the return line to suck the fuel thru the filter and IP. This could cause issues with the IP internal pressures though.
    If running on veggie oil increase the fuel delivery line to 1/2"ID to further minimise restriction.
    Check posts by Tim HJ61

    Hope this helps,
    Tony
    Not sure this is right. Years ago my fisrt BD car was a 1HZ. After a few months the IP karked it and I sent it to a mob in Qld to get it rebuilt with Viton seals. When I got it back it didn't quite run right. It behaved as though I didn't have full throttle travel, and consequently it was flat out at 100kmh. I thought about sending it back, but this involved a fair bit of mucking around, so I thought I'd try fitting a Facet pump to see what happened. Bingo - problem solved, and it ran perfectly.

    If you're looking for a bio friendly IP rebuilder, there's a mob in Picton NSW (whose name escapes me at the moment), or if you wanted to send it to WA you will find Total Fuel Injection in Balcatta will happily rebuild a BD compatible pump for you, and they are the cheapest in Perth

    Leave a comment:

  • farmerpete
    Junior Member

  • farmerpete
    replied
    Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

    Click image for larger version

Name:	24022017_001_.jpg
Views:	2
Size:	23.5 KB
ID:	94628 The cigarette sized filter

    Leave a comment:

  • Qwarla
    Senior Member

  • Qwarla
    replied
    Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

    Originally posted by farmerpete View Post
    Qwarla ... you the man !!!! and Tilly , 3DB etc

    4500 rpm and black smoke
    I bet that gave you that 'warm n fuzzy feeling'.
    Nothing better than poking about and fixing the problem yourself and saving yourself a packet.
    Big scary things them IPs. But if it's stuffed, playing with it won't do any more damage and sometimes ya just get lucky and fix it.

    Somewhere along the way your filters must have let some crud slip past. This can happen bio melts all the glue holding the element together, or just a small part of the glue and makes for a small hole.
    But now you know where to look next time.

    Good work.

    Leave a comment:

  • farmerpete
    Junior Member

  • farmerpete
    replied
    Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

    Qwarla ... you the man !!!! and Tilly , 3DB etc

    I used google pictures and went to the web pages of multo problems involving no power / smoking 1hz engines
    So one bloke did what I did...checked the filter screen in the injector pump inlet and couldn't see one but he went down in the hole about 60 mm with a piece of wire with a hook on the end and found one
    So did I... and found one. I did look at some stage previously but didn't really know what I was looking for
    Pulled it out with a twisted picky thing and blocked to buggery. Its built of delicate fine s/s mesh
    Cleaned out with SCA degreasing spray and a .22 calibre soft nylon barrel brush. It had no plastic base so left crap at bottom of hole.
    Fortunately the fuel intake down that hole is about 2 cm off the bottom so sucked out out the contents thru a small plastic hose by mouth.
    Back flushed with gravity thru the return line with diesel to make sure its all clean and sucked out again
    Back together with the external fuel tank on the ladder and no facet pump attached
    No bubbles ....
    4500 rpm and black smoke
    ...that made for a big smile. Didn't check for air bubbles in the return line.
    Still need to check for air leaks as I put the fuel system back together to find what is allowing air in
    I took some photos will post soon
    Thanks to ewes all for your inputs.
    I just realised the engine probably hasn't revved to max for 7 or 8 years because this was developing slowly

    Leave a comment:

  • Tony From West Oz
    Vice Chairperson of WARFA

  • Tony From West Oz
    replied
    Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

    You said previously that adding the Facet fuel pump restored engine performance - for a while.
    That indicates that the problem lies within the IP.
    You have a few of choices:
    1. Have the pump cleaned and checked, or
    2. Source a second hand pump to suit your engine from a wreckers.
    3. Have a go at dismantling and cleaning your IP yourself.

    Leave a comment:

  • 3DB
    Senior Member

  • 3DB
    replied
    Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

    Sorry - completely overlooked the air in return line issue in my response above.

    If if you remove the Facet pump from the equation and run the engine do you still get air in the return line?

    Leave a comment:

  • 3DB
    Senior Member

  • 3DB
    replied
    Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

    Some good information coming out in this thread. We need someone with a flowchart builder to put it all in as a reference sticky to save it all being written out again in a few weeks time when the next person has this problem.

    It makes a lot of sense to start with the simplest, most obvious & cheapest troubleshooting techniques first and progress to the harder, more expensive ones if they don't work.

    At this point hunting for that filter screen makes a lot of sense and it will be the next thing I investigate if my problem comes back again. My Zexel IP does not have one under the inlet banjo. I never found one when I was fiddling around a couple of years ago to try to increase the power, but I can't remember whether I removed the cut-off solenoid.

    Anyway, it may be worth consulting Capataincademan as he is the other guy with a 1HZ that immediately comes to mind and it seems like he would know the location of that screen on your vehicle. Hopefully it is easy to get at without removing the IP from the vehicle or having to remove other stuff.

    Regarding the acetone flush - yes, I used my Facet pump to do that with the engine off. I don't know how your engine would go if you pumped it at high concentration through the injectors while running, but I think I got a least a bit burned through mine when I re-started. I cannot say that the acetone won't kill your Facet pump either. Mine died before I finished a full 500 mL flush, but it seems like it was probably already on its last legs.

    Leave a comment:

  • Qwarla
    Senior Member

  • Qwarla
    replied
    Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

    Originally posted by farmerpete View Post
    ( noted no flow from injector overflow tube...injectors must be really bad )
    All this was done at 1600 rpm

    It looks to me that you are trying to convince yourself your injectors are stuffed.
    Picture this-
    IP is sending an amount of fuel to each injector. It can go two places.
    1. Into the engine and be burnt producing power.
    2. Out the overflow tube and return to the fuel tank.

    Now you have no, or very little overflow and very low on power. What does this suggest to you?
    To me it says you are not getting enough fuel delivered to your injectors.
    If you have had the engine running as described, everything on your vehicle has been bypassed except the IP. So the problem has to be within the IP.

    The vein pump will not be visible through the return banjo bolt hole. It's usually down the front near where the IP bolts to the engine.
    The fact that the screen in this hole was clogged with crud must tell you something.
    it tells me that your filter system has had a failure and let crud into your IP.
    If you study the diagrams further back up this thread you will discover something that may help you. Marked in big blue letters.
    On most IPs there is a sintered filter between the IP pumps body and the high pressure head. Sometimes under the fuel shut off solenoid.

    All the fuel that gets sent to the injectors has to pass through this filter.
    Since there is/was crud in your IP it is a fair bet this other filter copped a fair bit as well and is very restricted.

    If I was a gambling man I'd put up $20.00 saying this is your problem.
    Qwarla
    Senior Member
    Last edited by Qwarla; 23 February 2017, 08:23 PM.

    Leave a comment:

  • Johnnojack
    Senior Member

  • Johnnojack
    replied
    Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

    Originally posted by tillyfromparadise View Post
    I assume yo have replaced the fuel filters?

    Also checked the filter screen in the IP

    Pete you won't see the vane pump through any inlet or outlet on the IP. Note the schematic drawing posted by Tilly is just that, schematic. The vane pump (feed pump) and the timer piston are both at 90 deg to what the drawing shows. Note the blue coloured filter label, some pumps have a filter under the shut off valve, this could be blocked. With a non turbo IP ou may be able to remove it easily, worth checking. If there is no screen filter there there could be one at the entrance to the head (cast iron lump on end) position is where the arrow opposite the blue arrow is. This is inside the pump and would require a strip down to access. If your pump makes air then it does sound like the front seal. However by putting a suction pump on the return it is an unnatural condition so seal could be OK. Have you checked the regulator valve? You do need a special tool to get it out as it has 2 flat side and 2 round sides. I have made one from 2 old 3/8 sockets. If the seals ( O rings) are gonefrom using bio you will lose pump pressure and revs/ power, exactly what is happening. Good luck you'll fix it.

    Leave a comment:

  • farmerpete
    Junior Member

  • farmerpete
    replied
    Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

    ok Picture this scene... 20 litre drum diesel on a step ladder about 1.2 metres above the injector pump ie good positive feed
    Use toyota primary filter (without prime pump) between drum and injector pump. This filter has good free flow of fuel from positive feed source ( hand primed filter had no free flow)
    Clear fuel lines ... no bubbles anywhere.
    max revs 1600
    facet pump on return line lowered rpm slightly when turned on ...better when turned off
    clear line from injector pump to facet pump on return line
    when facet pump running in this configuration AIR in clear return line out of injector pump
    tightened banjo bolt on return line back of pump no change in bubbles...removed return line from injectors to banjo bolt and blocked small pipe with finger no change on bubbles ( noted no flow from injector overflow tube...injectors must be really bad )
    All this was done at 1600 rpm
    Noted that fuel is free flowing very slightly ( gravity ) through injector pump into return line tank with engine off
    Noted with engine off sucking on return line from pump to mouth draws fuel and good amount of air at same time
    Clear hose on return line is v tight clamped
    Thoughts ??

    3DB ...push acetone metho etc through injector pump with facet pump?
    farmerpete
    Junior Member
    Last edited by farmerpete; 23 February 2017, 06:54 PM. Reason: ?

    Leave a comment:

  • farmerpete
    Junior Member

  • farmerpete
    replied
    Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

    The facet pump is about 6 weeks old.
    Up until some weeks ago it was making the ute almost run like her old self
    I removed the return pipe from back of the injector pump and indeed the small gauze filter was clagged up. Cleaned out and the return line now has a clear flow of diesel in it.
    The facet pump may well be stuffed. I'll take it off and try running without it again.
    There are no air bubbles in the line between the facet pump to the filter to the engine BUT before the facet was installed I was always finding air between the filter and the pump.
    I couldn't see where they were entering unless I put a GoPro camera under the hood
    I have hooked up a new fuel hose straight from the fuel tank to the water trap fuel filter.This bypasses about 8 hose clamps and 4 or 5 sections of old fuel hose and fuel pipe.
    Filters are new
    Couldn't see a vane pump behind the return line outlet
    So back out to the ute to play again
    farmerpete
    Junior Member
    Last edited by farmerpete; 23 February 2017, 04:03 PM. Reason: correction

    Leave a comment:

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