a new use for Bio

[tillyfromparadise]

Re: a new use for Bio

Hi gsmiley,
just to sort out a few of your statements,

I never heard of ethanol from woodchips either

Have a look here Treethanol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

but there are reasons we don't make biofuel from ethanol. Firstly ethanol has more value for human consumption than say 25 cents/litre.

25 cents/litre? What is the 25 cents /litre referring to? Methanol costs around $1.50 a litre if you buy it in a 200 litre drum.

Secondly the boiling point is around 87 degrees C

Ethanol boils at 78.4 C

as opposed to methanol at 58 or thereabouts

Methanol boils at 64.7 C

and you cannot get dry ethanol from a still,(about 20% water, 160 proof)

Ethanol forms an azeotrope with water which results in about 95.6% ethanol and 4.4% water.

and you can expect not even a re-circulating one which gets you up into the 90% range and you would have to use chemical means to dry it first.

All the ethanol used in commercial automobile fuel is produced to a standard that contains no water. Have you heard of a molecular sieve?

Even if you can make it out of reject potatoes or whatever.

You seem to be thinking about Russian Vodka or perhaps WWII German torpedo fuel..

[gsmiley]

Re: a new use for Bio

I never heard of ethanol from woodchips either but there are reasons we don't make biofuel from ethanol. Firstly ethanol has more value for human consumption than say 25 cents/litre. Secondly the boiling point is around 87 degrees C as opposed to methanol at 58 or thereabouts and you cannot get dry ethanol from a still,(about 20% water, 160 proof) not even a re-circulating one which gets you up into the 90% range and you would have to use chemical means to dry it first. Even if you can make it out of reject potatoes or whatever.

[hobie1kanobie]

Re: a new use for Bio

and yet , the guy i buy my meth from, who has told me so many times how bad it is, still does not use gloves or any safety gear when he sells it to me. i buy it in cubie lots, the drum pump leaks like there is no tomorrow, and he splashes the stuff round all over the place.

[Johnnojack]

Re: a new use for Bio

OK thanks Tony for that info. Unbelievable that they would add methanol deliberately to spirits as it is so poisonous.

[Tony From West Oz]

Re: a new use for Bio

JJ,
MEtho has not had ANY methanol in it for several decades.
It is basically 95%Ethanol with Bittrex and water making up the other 5%
Bittrex has a similar BOP to ethanol and thus cannot be distilled out.
If you can dry the 5% out, it should make a good source of Ethanol for biodiesel processing.

From what I have heard on the poisonings, the commercial Methanol was added to the locally distilled alcohol to make it go further. It was not just a case of not taking the 'heads' off the brew during distillation. Someone was a bit heavy handed with the Methanol in this case. Several others were also poisoned to varying extents. At least 2 others died.

Regards,

Tony

[Johnnojack]

Re: a new use for Bio

Another name, an old one, for methylated spirits (ethanol) is wood alchohol. Bit off topic I know but, Re methanol poisoning I think they put a bit of methanol in metho plus something horrible tasting to stop people from drinking it. The Bali methanol poisonings are likely to be from using metho, (with its lurking methanol). If they used straight methanol to make their spirits go further they would have dead customers all over the place. does anyone else agree?

[83Patrol]

Re: a new use for Bio

EDIT: Forget I wrote that... just looked it up - I wasn't aware that ethanol can be made from wood chips Shift+R improves the quality of this image. Shift+A improves the quality of all images on this page.

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Haven't seen the episode either, but wouldn't alcohol made from wood chips be methanol rather than ethanol?

[tillyfromparadise]

Re: a new use for Bio

Hi Jack's Daughter,
I have not watched the show in question. However, if you are forced to substitute home made ethanol for the methanol most people currently use, it would probably be more cost effective to sell the ethanol as moonshine and buy petro diesel.
Or buy a 63 era falcon holden, or valiant to use the ethanol in.

O k I am on the home stretch on episode 4 but got distracted by a burning question. There is a bit where they make booze with the wood chips in the glass bottle in the ground. Is this something that could be subbed for methanol? What if there was a supply issue with methanol, or a tax issue or inflation made it expensive? What are the alternatives? I hope he does a second series and includes more self sufficiency solutions.

[craigcurtin]

Re: a new use for Bio

I have not seen the episode but usually this would be ETHANOL that you brew rather than Methanol - have a look at the US forums (infopop) there are a few people trying to make BIO from Ethanol - success seems to be OK but more hoops and harder and not cost effective

C

[jacks daughter]

Re: a new use for Bio

O k I am on the home stretch on episode 4 but got distracted by a burning question. There is a bit where they make booze with the wood chips in the glass bottle in the ground. Is this something that could be subbed for methanol? What if there was a supply issue with methanol, or a tax issue or inflation made it expensive? What are the alternatives? I hope he does a second series and includes more self sufficiency solutions.

[Tim-HJ61]

Re: a new use for Bio

Kevin McCloud's programme, 'A Man Made House' is on iView for a while
ABC iview.

Not really a spoiler alert, but his final speech in Ep 4 is about the value of 'making and doing' rather than 'consuming'. These are values I suspect all of us who are active participants in this forum would appreciate.

Tim

[jacks daughter]

Re: a new use for Bio

I had no idea Kevin McCloud had a new series. What an interesting concept. Makes me feel less weird and like I am before my time. I just saw a few clips in Youtube so now I have a new project to see what it is all about. If you are looking for applications for reusing oil how about a coke can penny stove. So cute they fit in your pocket. I don't know if will work but it would be worth a try. Or the mason jar lamp. You can now go to Amazon and order the clip in wick holder.These projects are on my to do list although until I saw this post I was going to use metho in the stove. These mini stoves can be dug into the ground to concentrate the heat. Have you heard of a Dakota Fire Pit? Slightly different type of fire but put a penny stove in a smaller version and perhaps it would be more efficient than open air. I already have the coke cans after raiding my neighbours bin and I bought 4 no 31 glass jars from another neighbour to make the lamp. I love projects.

[SUZUDDIS]

Re: a new use for Bio

Bio and or Vegie oil is good for killing bulbs in the garden.
by Bulbs i mean a plant. some weeds have a bulb as a root. pooring Bio or vegie oil on it carefully so not to kill other plants actually smothers the plant so it cannot feed.

Michael

[hobie1kanobie]

Re: a new use for Bio

yes , and thanks to that show, i have a new little project. A gas supply fed with household veg scraps. I have a few extra drums floating around, who would have thought eh, spare drums. seems like a good thing.

[smithw]

Re: a new use for Bio

That show was quite good I liked the toilet powered gas cooker and how he got around the building permit by using wheels.