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looking at converting my 2002 Landcruiser with 1HZ engine to WVO

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  • #16
    Re: looking at converting my 2002 Landcruiser with 1HZ engine to WVO

    Originally posted by Tony From West Oz View Post
    Mark, I have been using Blended WVO in a 1 tank system without heating or flushing the system for over 6 years with no impact on the engines of the cars I have had in that time.
    Try 10% ULP in your tank and forget about flushing.
    That's fine for a Musso or older Mercedes which use an inline pump (and are indirect injection), but for Paul's Toyota 1HZ, which is indirect injection but uses a rotary IP, I don't think that's advisable. Maybe you weren't aware that the 1HZ uses a rotary injection pump.
    1987 Mercedes W124 300D
    1997 Ssangyong Musso Wagon

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: looking at converting my 2002 Landcruiser with 1HZ engine to WVO

      Originally posted by Dr Mark View Post
      This is just my opinion, but don't do it. Have a look at this thread http://www.biofuelsforum.com/threads...th-1HDT-on-SVO

      I had been making bio and running it on all my vehicles for years, but a while back I got lazy and thought I'd give WVO a go. If you want to go this route make sure you read all the stickys.

      Here's what you have to take into account. The IP must be flushed extensively with dino before you stop the engine. The amount of flushing required completely offsets the cost saving by not using bio (I make bio for about 20c/L but WVO is free). And obviously the more short trips you do the more this is an issue.

      If you don't flush adequately, it can destroy your engine by glazing the cylinders. There is at least one account on this forum of that happening. Conversely, if you run on bio, the very worst that can happen is that you'll need to get your IP rekitted with biocompatible seals.

      Also, there's all the buggerising around with heat exchangers.

      So, as far as I'm concerned at least, manufacturing biodiesel is the better option.
      The Toyota 1HD-T engine is direct injection. You didn't purge/flush with diesel or well-made biodiesel on shutdown. The folly of that practice is well established.
      1987 Mercedes W124 300D
      1997 Ssangyong Musso Wagon

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: looking at converting my 2002 Landcruiser with 1HZ engine to WVO

        Thanks for info everyone

        so so to be clear, if I start and purge on blend of 10% ULP and SCO I should have no issues even with rotary IP?

        i will install an additional fuel filter before the factory filter as tonyfromwestoz has suggested. I will purchase this week and install and then set to go.

        thanks again

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: looking at converting my 2002 Landcruiser with 1HZ engine to WVO

          Originally posted by perolin View Post
          Thanks for info everyone

          so so to be clear, if I start and purge on blend of 10% ULP and SCO I should have no issues even with rotary IP?

          i will install an additional fuel filter before the factory filter as tonyfromwestoz has suggested. I will purchase this week and install and then set to go.

          thanks again
          That is not what 83 Patrol wrote.
          I have only had indirect injection diesel engines with inline IP and they are fine on 10% start in Summer (more in Winter) so I cannot advise based on my experience on your engine.
          A 2 tank system with 'fuel return to tank of origin' is likely to be best for your engine.
          Start on diesel or biodiesel, when engine temperature is up to normal temperature, switch to veggie (blend is fine if you don't want to add fuel heater).
          Drive all day and switch back to diesel / biodiesel ~5km from shutdown. This will purge the IP and injectors of veggie oil ready for a cold start.

          Tim-HJ61 has more experience than I, with Direct Injection rotary injector pump on Toyota vehicles using veggie oil.
          Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

          Current Vehicles in stable:
          '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
          '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
          '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

          Previous Vehicles:
          '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
          '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
          '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
          '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
          '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
          '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
          '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
          '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
          '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

          Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
          Adding images and/or documents to your posts

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: looking at converting my 2002 Landcruiser with 1HZ engine to WVO

            Originally posted by 83Patrol View Post
            That's fine for a Musso or older Mercedes which use an inline pump (and are indirect injection), but for Paul's Toyota 1HZ, which is indirect injection but uses a rotary IP, I don't think that's advisable. Maybe you weren't aware that the 1HZ uses a rotary injection pump.
            83 Patrol,
            I was aware of the rotary IP but not of the Direct Injection.
            The IP will handle a 10% blend without heating the fuel.
            The main concern is that it is a DI engine and that shutdown on veggie blend may contribute to polymerisation of the veggie oil in the injector tips, resulting in poor spray patterns and possibility of fuel being sprayed onto the cylinder walls, causing ring gumming and resultant bore wear.
            Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

            Current Vehicles in stable:
            '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
            '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
            '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

            Previous Vehicles:
            '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
            '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
            '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
            '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
            '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
            '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
            '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
            '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
            '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

            Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
            Adding images and/or documents to your posts

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: looking at converting my 2002 Landcruiser with 1HZ engine to WVO

              Sorry Tony and 83patrol, I did mean to write start and purge on straight diesel and then switch across to a blend with an extra filter installed.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: looking at converting my 2002 Landcruiser with 1HZ engine to WVO

                Originally posted by Tony From West Oz View Post
                83 Patrol,
                I was aware of the rotary IP but not of the Direct Injection.
                The IP will handle a 10% blend without heating the fuel.
                The main concern is that it is a DI engine and that shutdown on veggie blend may contribute to polymerisation of the veggie oil in the injector tips, resulting in poor spray patterns and possibility of fuel being sprayed onto the cylinder walls, causing ring gumming and resultant bore wear.

                Hi Tony

                The 1HZ is actually INdirect injection, as written:

                "but for Paul's Toyota 1HZ, which is indirect injection but uses a rotary IP, I don't think that's advisable."

                I'd still steer clear of a single tank system due to the rotary pump.
                1987 Mercedes W124 300D
                1997 Ssangyong Musso Wagon

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: looking at converting my 2002 Landcruiser with 1HZ engine to WVO

                  Originally posted by perolin View Post
                  Sorry Tony and 83patrol, I did mean to write start and purge on straight diesel and then switch across to a blend with an extra filter installed.
                  That's what I would do. The extra filter for the WVO / WVO blend should be plumbed in parallel (separate) to the stock filter.
                  83Patrol
                  Donating Member
                  Last edited by 83Patrol; 1 January 2019, 12:07 AM. Reason: Stock filter, not stick filter
                  1987 Mercedes W124 300D
                  1997 Ssangyong Musso Wagon

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: looking at converting my 2002 Landcruiser with 1HZ engine to WVO

                    Firstly thanks everyone for the help to date.

                    Got the car running on WVO now. Ran 500km over the last week and can't notice any difference in performance and efficiency. It was a bit daunting the first time pressing the button to switch over to WVO, but after that I had a big smile on my face for the rest of the day.

                    I have been starting on diesel on sub tank and then switching over to a 10% blend SVO with ULP after about 10 minutes of running and the temp gauge is showing normal operating temp. I have also been switching back to diesel around 10 minutes from where I am going to stop.

                    I am yet to put a 2nd filter in, but did replace my fuel filter 2 days ago and it looked clean with no junk or noticeable contaminates. Any suggestions on the 2nd filter I should put in?

                    I have 6 linked 220L blue drums that I am running my oil for settling and in the final drum have set up an internal tripod with a 1 micon filter sock before being decanted into 20L jerry cans for filling up the car. Doesn't look the best, but works well.

                    Cheers
                    Paul

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: looking at converting my 2002 Landcruiser with 1HZ engine to WVO

                      2 weeks running on WVO blend with 10% ULP now, but I have had an issue yesterday and again today. I've travelled 1,100km on new fuel filter.

                      After switching to the WVO tank it runs for around 15-20 minutes without issue, but then starts to feel like its lacking fuel. While running on the freeway it starts to lack power and almost splutters. I switch back over to diesel and after around 5 minutes it goes away.

                      I put a glass jar of my filtered WVO in the fridge overnight to see if any fats dropped out, all clear this morning. Nothing on bottom of jar and nothing floating.

                      I'm thinking some gunk in the WVO tank maybe??? or maybe the uptake filter in the WVO tank is starting to get blocked. Thinking its not the fuel filter as it goes away when running on diesel. Anyone got some thoughts or advice?

                      I won't be able to drain and inspect tank until boxing day or maybe weekend.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: looking at converting my 2002 Landcruiser with 1HZ engine to WVO

                        Originally posted by perolin View Post
                        2 weeks running on WVO blend with 10% ULP now, but I have had an issue yesterday and again today. I've travelled 1,100km on new fuel filter.

                        After switching to the WVO tank it runs for around 15-20 minutes without issue, but then starts to feel like its lacking fuel. While running on the freeway it starts to lack power and almost splutters. I switch back over to diesel and after around 5 minutes it goes away.

                        I put a glass jar of my filtered WVO in the fridge overnight to see if any fats dropped out, all clear this morning. Nothing on bottom of jar and nothing floating.

                        I'm thinking some gunk in the WVO tank maybe??? or maybe the uptake filter in the WVO tank is starting to get blocked. Thinking its not the fuel filter as it goes away when running on diesel. Anyone got some thoughts or advice?

                        I won't be able to drain and inspect tank until boxing day or maybe weekend.

                        The Cause:
                        Using veggie oil will kill off any 'diesel bug' in your fuel tank and the dead bug will go into the fuel filter (& strainer).
                        If it has got to the fuel filter (I think that it has) then it will starve for fuel on veggie oil but be fine after it clears the veggie oil, and diesel being less viscous will pass they the filter much better, leading you to think the problem is in the veggie supply line, rather than the filter.

                        Change the filter and performance will be restored. This may happen for a few more 1000s of km, but after that it will be a long time between filter changes.

                        The Remedy:
                        You are probably better to have a separate fuel filter for each fuel tank. If you have a strainer in the veggie tank, is it removable for cleaning? Otherwise remove it completely. You need to have good access to strainers and filters to clean / replace them. If you can get a second filter housing and filter the same as the OEM one, install that in the veggie oil fuel line. You only need to carry one type of fuel filter then. Performance should restore immediately on changing back to diesel. Choose a convenient place to replace the veggie filter and then continue your journey.
                        Tony From West Oz
                        Vice Chairperson of WARFA
                        Last edited by Tony From West Oz; 24 December 2018, 06:11 PM.
                        Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

                        Current Vehicles in stable:
                        '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
                        '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
                        '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

                        Previous Vehicles:
                        '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
                        '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
                        '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
                        '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
                        '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
                        '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
                        '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
                        '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
                        '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

                        Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
                        Adding images and/or documents to your posts

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: looking at converting my 2002 Landcruiser with 1HZ engine to WVO

                          What Tony said, and consider blowing compressed air from engine bay to veggie tank just to ensure itís clear.
                          Not sure of your trucks design, but note you may have a one way valve somewhere along the line that wonít allow the compressed air through unless you remove it, but if so ensure it also isnít blocked both directions with crap.
                          Harvey
                          1983 BJ42 Landcruiser (sold)
                          1997 C250TD Mercedes-Benz 60,000 km on wvo

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: looking at converting my 2002 Landcruiser with 1HZ engine to WVO

                            Thanks Tony and Harvey,

                            replaced filter and running fine again.

                            with my cruiser the valves are next to the fuel tanks with a single line from the back of the car to the engine bay. To install a separate filter on veg oil I will have to duplicate line from tank to engine bay or install filter between main tank and valve under the rear of the car. I will have to double check for room under car. It's not a problem to change out filter on side of road for me so I will just carry a spare with me all the time and hopefully the period between changes will increase soon.

                            Cheers
                            paul

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: looking at converting my 2002 Landcruiser with 1HZ engine to WVO

                              Originally posted by perolin View Post
                              Thanks Tony and Harvey,

                              replaced filter and running fine again.

                              with my cruiser the valves are next to the fuel tanks with a single line from the back of the car to the engine bay. To install a separate filter on veg oil I will have to duplicate line from tank to engine bay or install filter between main tank and valve under the rear of the car. I will have to double check for room under car. It's not a problem to change out filter on side of road for me so I will just carry a spare with me all the time and hopefully the period between changes will increase soon.

                              Cheers
                              paul
                              Paul,
                              You should consider installing a new fuel line in 12 mm pipe for the veggie oil. This will significantly reduce friction losses for the oil on its way to the new fuel filter. You should be able to get 12mm plastic air line which does the job beautifully. Fittings are available to mate with the connections to the fuel tank and to the new fuel filter.
                              Tim HJ-61 has added a 12 mm fuel line from the fuel tank to the engine bay for this purpose. Search his posts to find out more.
                              Tony
                              Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

                              Current Vehicles in stable:
                              '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
                              '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
                              '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

                              Previous Vehicles:
                              '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
                              '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
                              '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
                              '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
                              '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
                              '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
                              '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
                              '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
                              '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

                              Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
                              Adding images and/or documents to your posts

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: looking at converting my 2002 Landcruiser with 1HZ engine to WVO

                                What Tony says, new bigger fuel line for veg. Separate filter under bonnet. Try to get your vege filter as close as possible to the IP even if you have to relocate the diesel filter to the back of the engine bay. I redesigned my system many times and now have no unheated oil at all going into the IP when I swap to vege. Solenoid valve is connected to the heat exchanger so it heats up and the hose from it to the IP is only 15cm long.
                                Johnnojack
                                4WD Isuzu Jackaroo 3.1 200000km on WVO,(2020) 2 tank home built system 6 solenoids FPHE, heated filter fuel line and tank pickup for thicker oil. Mk. 9 version now and no changes planned as trouble free.
                                Mercedes W201 190D 1986 model: 2 tank system, bigger fuel line from tank, no heat exchanger, electric pump for diesel 22000km so far sigpic

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