Blending question - probably for DJ

[RODEONICK]

Re: Blending question - probably for DJ

My GQ RD28T is factory turbo IDI. My son's Hilux surf was factory turbo IDI.
Later model hiluxes also had factory turbo IDI.
It's only on the LandCruisers that Toyota change from IDI to DI for the factory turbo. I don't see why they didn't change to DI for the non turbo 1HZ. I see from my Toyota manual that they use lower compression on the DI engines.
I know turbo works well on IDI engines but does DI not work without a turbo?
Are there any non turbo DI engines?

Non turbo DI are reallllllly noisy think 1930's tractor.
The compression difference betweeen engines is for the turbo fitment ( i don't believe the DI IDI has any bearing on comp ratios)
Hence the reason aftermarket turbos NEVER go as good as factory ones.( boost compensator is another reason)
DI is more efficient but is noiseir
notice how tojo turbo engines Except 1HD-T and 1HD-FTE are still gutless blow sacks of poo i think that the DI is helper on the cruser engines. jst some thoughts

[Nuddy]

Re: Blending question - probably for DJ

I will see if it starts in the morning.

It did! First kick - just like on dino. Now the Mrs has taken it to work today - hope it starts OK this evening.
I guess the next step is to try 5%
I will eventually go to 2 tank and use 10% for startup/purge as I do on the GU.

[Nuddy]

Re: Blending question - probably for DJ

sounds like a top rig then. I would have thought being factory turbo it would be DI. well if only they made a dual cab i'ld have to buy a new truck.

My GQ RD28T is factory turbo IDI. My son's Hilux surf was factory turbo IDI.
Later model hiluxes also had factory turbo IDI.
It's only on the LandCruisers that Toyota change from IDI to DI for the factory turbo. I don't see why they didn't change to DI for the non turbo 1HZ. I see from my Toyota manual that they use lower compression on the DI engines.
I know turbo works well on IDI engines but does DI not work without a turbo?
Are there any non turbo DI engines?

[Nuddy]

Re: Blending question - probably for DJ

Hi Nuddy,

see, you should have brought a troopy like mine.

God bless froggo

Had one, 1988 - 1998, actually a cab/chassis with a camper built on the back.
1" sqr tube frame, ply lining, aluminium skin, 1" styrofoam insulation between.
Wind out windows with fly screens and curtains, cupboards, kitchen etc.
Came with petrol 6 cyl. I added LPG, 350 chev, 5 speed, 60 series back axle (fully floating axles + a handbrake), 60 series front end (disc brakes).
Spent many happy times in the old 45 including 2 weeks living aboard in queensland for a sailing regatta and numerous weekends skiing with family of 3. Towed 3 tonne of boat and trailer to Darwin. Sadly sold to a wrecker when it got too rusty to register.
Oops off topic - off biofuels, unless you count LPG (I don't).

Back to blending - I did the test 10% ULP in probably wet WVO, left for 2 days - no water dropped out - perhaps it wasn't so wet after all.
Now I have emptied the main tank on the GU (no drain plug so I drove it till the warning light came on + 10 km) and filled it with 8 litres of ULP in 72 litres of long settled and fine filtered WVO. Drove 20 km to get it through the system.
I will see if it starts in the morning.

[froggo]

Re: Blending question - probably for DJ

Hi Nuddy,

see, you should have brought a troopy like mine.

God bless froggo

[RODEONICK]

Re: Blending question - probably for DJ

sounds like a top rig then. I would have thought being factory turbo it would be DI. well if only they made a dual cab i'ld have to buy a new truck.

[Nuddy]

Re: Blending question - probably for DJ

is it really IDI????

that surprises me but a good thing if you want to convert i guess.

Yes, it is the same old truck engine that nissan has been using in the patrol since 1988. IDI, iron head, pushrod - cam in block, crossflow head, twin oil filter, no electronics on the IP, tough as nails. The only downside is rotary IP. If only it had an inline pump and separate lift pump it would be perfect.
And the suspension - same as the GQ - coils all round and beam axles front and rear and the muddies from the GQ fit right on.

[RODEONICK]

Re: Blending question - probably for DJ

The 2005 GU 4.2 (IDI turbo - intercooled)

is it really IDI????

that surprises me but a good thing if you want to convert i guess.

[Nuddy]

Re: Blending question - probably for DJ

In any case the way to do this would simply be to mix up a drum of blend and then let it stand after which you only removed say the top 3/4 of the volume and then carefully checked the remainder to see if anything had dropped out.

For Blending with ULP, my many tests and experience shows that 10-15% ULP should cause no problems with vaporisation. Of course every fuel system is different as are the conditions vehicles are driven under but I believe this to be a safe percentage.
In my experience, the most likely time for vapor problems is when Idling when the vehicle is hot and the fuel system components heat soak. Under this scenario, having the fuel heated or not makes little difference because it will be heated through the underbonnet temps and fuel system components anyway.

In winter I have used up to 20% ulp without problems although a little stumbling may occur at take off from lengthy periods of idling. Outright power and performance may also be affected as the ULP does seem to bear out the theroy of having less energy and a different burn rate which at the rate of 1/5th the total fuel being used, does have an effect on the engine output.

My suggestion to you would be try running 10% ULP now and see how you go. If you have no problems with vapor lock, then I would stay with that till the winter comes and when starting slows down, up the blend to 15%. If that isn't enough, you could try 20% but I would be more comfortable myself adding a non vapor fuel like DIno, Bio or Kero if you need to go above 15% ULP. If you do get a bit of vapor problems, back the Petrol down to 5% and again work up from there as necessary.
I doubt 10% will give you any grief even in the hotter weather with heating but like I said, Nothing is standard in this game.

In the dead of winter, you may have to go to something like 40% Dino, 15 Ulp to get decent starts and initial running. That won't be for long so you'll just have to be content with a 50% fuel savings for a couple of months before you get back to 90-95% cost free motoring.
- - - - - - - - - snip - - - - - - - -
I recommend the fitment of a HE for running blends. As around 85-95% of the fuel you will be using is still going to be oil that everyone ( except yourself ) busts a gut to get hotter than the sun, It makes sense to heat it the same as one would ordinarily. I found that installing a HE on my vehicle made a noticeable difference to the performance particularly in the transitional period between starting and the engine fully being warmed up.
A big advantage of having a HE fitted is the ability to melt any fats that may eventually clog filters and for this reason alone I think they are more than worthwhile.
- - - - - - - snip - - - - - - - - -

My suggestion would be to start with 10% RUG, a HE and see how you go from there. If the car has trouble starting as the weather gets colder, up the ULP to 15% and if that is insufficent, add Dino, Bio or Kero from there.
Also remember that blending is an evolving animal and not something you can say " Ok this is working, I'm set now." You have to adjust it to the climatic conditions at the time although 2-3 Blends should be sufficient for year round operation but once you get some experience you'll probably just tinker with it by feel at the time and come up with 10 blends.

I also suggest keeping a note book of the date, and weather conditions and how the car ran to refer back to. Your learning curve should only really be 6 months or so because after that the weather temps pretty much repeat themselves and you'll know what worked best by then.

Thanks for the excellent advice Dave - as usual.
I have got the 2nd Nissan Patrol. Keeping the 1995 GQ 2.8 for me to drive and play off-road. The 2005 GU 4.2 (IDI turbo - intercooled) is for the Mrs drive and for outback trips but not for scratching. I will probably convert the GU eventually but have a lot on at the moment and so will probably start with blending until I can get the bio happening.
I have just mixed up a jar of 10% ULP (actually I think it might be E10) and 90% WVO. The WVO is fairly fresh (not much settling - just from the shop and through the coles bag then through the 5 micron sock) and probably fairly wet. I have left it in the sun for the afternoon then I will put it in the fridge tonight and check tomorrow to see if anything settles out (water?).
Meanwhile I have some old oil that filtered through the bag and sock about 6 months ago and has been stored in 200 litre black plastic containers. I will take some off the top of those containers and pump it through the 1 micron cartridge into 20 litre cubees where I will have 2 litres of ulp already, giving a 10% blend. I will let these sit for a while then pour the top half of each into a bucket and then pump through the 1 micron cartridge and into the GU tank (which I will drain of dino first).
Then I will see how it starts on 10%.

[tbird650]

Re: Blending question - probably for DJ

I bought some today at $1.04.
But remember there's a hefty road tax per mileage on diesel vehicles and those using fuel not taxed at the source.

Use this price watch site:
Cardlink PriceWatch provides a snapshot of the fuel transaction prices throughout New Zealand.

[neil]

Re: Blending question - probably for DJ

Vapourizing does need to be managed. Obviuosly conventional looping is out. Re-starting can be a minor irritation. The residual motor heat vapourizes the fuel in the injector lines and IP, so extra cranking can be required to bleed out the air.
The rotary IP is set up to self bleed as you drive, so a modest amount of bubbles is immediately manageable.
Ambient temp variations will require modified blend ratio to suit the season and for optimum ecconomic efficiency (less bought fuel).
I ran a 20% ulp blend for quite some time in the early days of veggy-ing but nowadays I have a clear nylon return line visible as I drive, restart, idle at traffic lights, etc. Really lets you know whats going on!
Right now, if I had more supply, I would be running low% ULP blend being that it's summer.
Given my current supply shortage, I'm running 40%dino blend & no heat exchanger. That gives cold starting slightly difficult but very manageable.

Hey Tbird off topic but can you confirm Diesel price in NZ is $1.07
Heard this on radio today.

[tbird650]

Re: Blending question - probably for DJ

Vapourizing does need to be managed. Obviuosly conventional looping is out. Re-starting can be a minor irritation. The residual motor heat vapourizes the fuel in the injector lines and IP, so extra cranking can be required to bleed out the air.
The rotary IP is set up to self bleed as you drive, so a modest amount of bubbles is immediately manageable.
Ambient temp variations will require modified blend ratio to suit the season and for optimum ecconomic efficiency (less bought fuel).
I ran a 20% ulp blend for quite some time in the early days of veggy-ing but nowadays I have a clear nylon return line visible as I drive, restart, idle at traffic lights, etc. Really lets you know whats going on!
Right now, if I had more supply, I would be running low% ULP blend being that it's summer.
Given my current supply shortage, I'm running 40%dino blend & no heat exchanger. That gives cold starting slightly difficult but very manageable.

[Jeffrey S. Brooks]

Re: Blending question - probably for DJ

Hello Nuddy, yes, there are quite a few people who successfully blend VO with various solvents to run a diesel engine on. However, very few of them blend and heat the fuel line. Most of the successful anecdotes I have read of both blending and heating, the individuals generally do not add more than 5% unleaded to their VO-based fuel blend.

I cannot recall where you are, maybe southern California, if so it might still be a bit cold there, so it might be hard to startup with so little unleaded added to your fuel blend. I would suggest that you might find life burning VO a lot easier if you either do straight BD, or straight two-tank, or straight blending, but do not mix the methods, or you are likely to have trouble.

If you could install a thermostat on your FPHE that keeps the heat below 120F, then you might be able to both blend and heat.

[Nuddy]

Re: Blending question - probably for DJ

Rather than start a new thread I thought I would revive this old one.
I am about to get another vehicle - trading the LPG falcon ute on a Patrol GU 4.2 turbo intercooled diesel (indirect injection). I am thinking to not convert the 2005 Patrol, except for adding a FPHE and a Walbro pusher pump.
I think I want to run it on a blend of mainly WVO. I don't have access to kero or jet fuel. ULP is relatively cheap (compared to kero) and I have read on this forum somewhere that blending with ULP may cause the suspended water in the WVO to drop out of suspension. I am wondering how high a percentage of ULP I can use without having trouble. I think DJ has said that he uses 5% without trouble but am concerned that a higher percentage may result in vapourisation, particularly if I have a FPHE. However I am not sure it will start on a 5% blend. I have found that I can start my 2.8 turbo on 100% WVO (forgot to purge) by spraying a little metho (ethanol) into the intake manifold (unscrew the blow-off valve and spray in then hit the starter) so perhaps I can set up a remote control sprayer for cold starts on the new patrol and run a 5% blend or less?

Thoughts forum members please.

Also planning to make Bio but haven't even got to drying my WVO yet, which must be highest priority but maybe blending will do the drying for me.

[Jeffrey S. Brooks]

Re: Blending question - probably for DJ

Thanks for getting back with us. Working out a blend can often times be complicated by intermittent mechanical problems, which it sounds you may have. White smoke for a few minutes after starting with a blend is common, and considered normal.